Graphics settings to minimum, gets rid of the ground clutter. Helps a lot, also you can do what fishing bots do and move the mouse cursor across the screen (like an inkjet printer) until you mouse over it.
It was sarcasm. Hunters do âmehâ dps, but they still pass all of the DPS threshold requirements by a decent margin when played optimally.
How many wipes do you think itâs going to take from the first pull a guild makes on Ragnaros, until they kill him?
3 tops, realistically.
40 people in your raid is just that many more opportunities to get tail whacked into the eggs on Onyxia.
40 people in your raid is just that many more opportunities for the person who is the bomb to not get out of the raid, killing the people who are responsible for decursing.
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Even without enrage mechanics, vanilla had built in wipe mechanics. Your healers would go OOM if the fight lasted too long.
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Depends probably not much if the raid is prepare right and study the fight. I would say 5 to 10.
If they go in with some what half pre-bis and very few ppl with fire resistance possibility 25 wipes call it. Come back with better gear in two weeks and down it.
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What made raiding difficult was getting 40 ppl on, geared and generally ready
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This. Depends on the guild.
For a progression oriented guild that is prepared? probably only 1 pull? maybe a few?
For the average garden variety guild? no telling.
We started on the server KaelâThas when it opened in Oct 2005, and killed Rag on our second pull in Dec 05.
That wasnât the claim I was responding to. However, going oom isnt a wipe mechanic. It exists outside of the encounter and isnt dependent on the encounter. A wipe mechanic would be something like burning adrenaline or geddonâs bomb. A 1 shot mechanic that will eventually target the entire raid given enough time.
I think people have gotten very used to todays raiding scene. Smaller raid sizes and personal loot have clouded people memories. Put yourself in a Guild leaders shoes.
Imagine trying to get 40 People online and into raid group. Even if you have 40 online. Some one will say they have to go eat dinner, they âdonât feel like raidingâ, âIâm pvping tonightâ.
40 man raids produce a problem with attendance. You will pretty much NEVER have the same 40 people in a raid group. There is no way the same 40 people will come every raid night for 18 to 24 months that it takes to get through ALL the content. This means you need to gear at least 50-60 people for the content you are working on.
Bosses only drop 3 epics at a time, and people will screw your guild with item drops. You will give a rogue the shiny new Perditions Blade off Rag, and he wont even show up the next 2 or 3 raids. You will gear players out and they will quit, They will have to go away to college, get married, have a kid. You will constantly be replcing a regearing players over the coarse of 2 years
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I should have said game mechanic instead of wipe mechanic.
Even without enrage mechanics, vanilla had built in wipe game mechanics (to limit the duration of fights). Your healers would go OOM if the fight lasted too long.
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Modern raiding is 99% twitch based where actual combat mechanics (threat, resource management, knowing when to go nuts and when to hold the horses, etc) do not exist. Raids are small (and so are the fight areas) and the preparation aspects are also removed (consumable farming, wipe recovery, repair costs, logistics).
Two entirely different beasts.
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Having raided every raid instance in the game while it was the top progression content starting with Molten Core I completely disagree.
Old raids had relatively little in the way of complex mechanics to master or things to pay attention to. Individual responsibility was quite low.
Compare that to mythic raiding today and there is absolutely no comparison. The mechanics of even the most complex Naxx and AQ40 fights from vanilla are an absolute joke compared to the complexity of even intermediate mythic bosses in Retail today.
Even many heroic mode fights today (Mechatorque, Jaina) require more coordination and player skill than any encounter in the hardest vanilla raids did back in Vanilla.
And itâs not just the Vanilla encounter mechanics that are easy. The individual class rotations and number of abilities was also much simpler back then. And with simpler rotations players could spend more time paying attention to the fight and less time trying to play their class.
I expect any experienced retail raiding guild that switches to vanilla will breeze through the content with little effort. The only roadblocks will be gear-check fights where progression is slowed while the raid farms resist gear or Onyxia cloaks, etc.
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Please cite a few examples from your experience as a Vanilla raider.
We get it, you have 30 mechanics per second and must go through a keyboard a week with all that button mashing.
Vanilla players are far less powerful relative to the content, have far fewer abilities, and are in quite a few significant ways very limited compared to the modern versions. One obvious thing, we couldnât swap roles and respec per encounter. The combat mechanics and abilities in the game now would have utterly trivialized most of Vanilla raiding. I think that is where the source of this is, players just donât have a good memory for that or just donât know.
Modern players donât deal with the original combat system. You donât have to wait on a rage starved tank who is having a bad RNG streak, or have a tank get parry jibed into the dirt because where a couple of the melee are standing is technically in front of the boss (without that being obvious).
Game knowledge, combat mechanics and comparatively low player power make up a big difference. Heck my unbuffed HP and Armor didnât even double as a Prot Warrior from BWL to Tier 6.
Another thing modern raiders simply donât deal with is knowing that if this attempt is going south, you should cut it short so you can get back without having to re-clear trash. That could be a lot of trash, hard trash. There are raiding decisions that just are no longer in the game to make.
Nobody is questioning that Mythic raiding is very challenging. Blizzard has to consider professional gaming organizations like Method when they design these things.
In a sense, it isnât even the same game. This will be the last time I comment that the comparison is frankly stupid.
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How is what any of you said indicative of something being difficult? Is it difficult to sit there and wait for your KTM threat meter to show the tank far above everyone else before you start spamming Frostbolt?
The fights in MC werenât difficult provided most of your raid has put in a modicum of effort towards properly gearing their characters.
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Hereâs a brief comparison of a couple fights:
Vanilla - Heigan the Unclean in Naxx
- âManaging Threatâ was a non-issue for most vanilla encounters. All serious vanilla raiders had a threatmeter mod installed. Ranged DPS stole threat if they exceed 130% of tank threat. Melee DPS stole threat if they exceed 110% tank threat. By the time Naxx was out, tank threat was very good. Holding fire for a few seconds to let the tank get sunders up was usually enough to enable all DPS to completely ignore threat for the rest of the fight. Stealing threat from the tank was considered a ânoobâ mistake that only entry level raiders in lower tier instances made. Serious raiders barely needed to devote any attention to this.
- Most of the fight you just stand in place and spam the boss
- Periodically there is a âwaveâ phase where you have to run back and forth. The graphics for this arenât obvious and it takes some practice to get the timing down. But if in doubt you can just follow the group. And if 1/4 of the raid messes up and dies the boss will still probably go down.
Opulence - from mythic difficulty Battle of Dar Zalor
- Raid size is 20 players for Dar Zalor compared to 40 for vanilla Naxx. This means there is a lot less redundancy available. In most Naxx fights you can have a few deaths and still beat the fight even in progression when your raid barely has the gear. Not so for many mythic Retail raids, many of which have mechanics on the lines of âif anyone messes up its an auto-wipeâ.
- Initial gauntlet phase: raid is split into two groups with each half handling one side of the gauntlet. Gauntlet consists of 7 rooms each with a miniboss and multiple mechanics. Lots and LOTS of stuff to dodge and avoid.
- The pace of encounter mechanics is very fast. Much faster than any vanilla raid. On the lightning side of the gauntlet you have 3 of the 10 people getting hit with orbs they have to drop off without killing each other, all while dodging fire from the walls, lasers, fire from the floors, etc.
- On the fire side of the gauntlet the boss will periodically blast flame waves around the entire room. Instant death if youâre hit with one. Have to stay close to the bossâ rear end when he does this mechanic while carefully matching his rotation.
- Periodically random players from one gauntlet will get swapped with players from the other gauntlet.
- Gauntlet phase lasts probably 5 minutes. If anyone dies in this phase itâs probably a wipe.
- Healers also need to manage dispels of debuffs in some rooms, plus a ton of raidwide damage that hits everyone throughout the fight even when all mechanics are properly dodged.
- It is very, VERY easy during this phase to accidentally place lightning orbs or laser wrong and die, usually taking a couple other players with you when you do causing a wipe.
- And thatâs just the first phase of the fight. Get past the gauntlet and you have phase 2 with its own mechanics.
- And Opulence is considered one of the easier mythic encounters in Battle of Darzalor.
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Iâm glad you deleted that post so quickly, kinda weird that it doesnât show that âthis post will be deleted in 24 hoursâ message.
lol yeah iâve tried that. Doesnât get any easier.
Youâve been here for ages, proving that you have no idea whatsoever about vanilla with every single post. Does it not get old?
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