I’d much rather have that than faceroll LH MC where a normal mode retail raid is hardcore difficult content in comparison.
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Actually he’s not; he’s just panning the camera in an odd way. The raids are different than you think. They’re not hard on an individual basis like the modern stuff. Where the challenge comes in is observation of the raid mechanics. If you fail to observe the raid mechanics you will very likely cause a wipe. The punishment is sever.
Outside of that it’s not much of a DPS race, this is why I laugh at the private server kids that want to all play fury warriors, it’s just dumb.
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C’thun is one of the fights where good players end up doing 5 times more damage and healing than the rest because they pay attention and plan ahead.
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Bingo, and the not so great players are not entirely bad for the raid so long as they don’t screw up.
If they do screw up it’s curtains in quite a few vanilla boss fights; this is what a lot of people just don’t seem to wrap their minds around.
Also good to remember that the players who don’t always deal massive damage aren’t always bad, they’re just playing less optimal builds that in some situations really shine and bring the guild along well for the fights where they are clutch.
The first time we got to C’Thun he had not been nerfed and we had ZERO idea how to handle it because there was no PTR to check this out, there was no guide, there was no “how to” based on some guild that’s been putting in double time on the private server…
It was just DEATH BY LASERS!
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His job is clearly to take down Eyestalkers/Tentacles in his sector and DPS C’thun to get him to phase 2 as needed.
I don’t player Hunter, but mana seems to be a thing for him. I don’t recall if that is a mechanic, or more likely he is using max rank spells which are expensive but do the most damage. Which would be critical throughout the fight.
On that fight some strategies involve players assigned only to C’thun while others are primarily concerned with the ‘adds’ with the Eye being a secondary target in between.
The Stalkers/Tentacles are what wipes you, and the angry red eyebeam of instant-death, and the stomach acid, stomach tentacles etc.
The problem with PoV fights like this is its a huge room with a lot going on at the same time. This guy is doing his job covering one small section of that.
A melee DPS, healer or tank PoV would show better how much is really going on.
Hist movement and spell use wasn’t too bad considering. He wasn’t missing adds and that is what matters.
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If you are melee and not on C’thun for phase one no matter how good you are your dps will be 5 times lower than a dps on c’thun phase one.
It doesn’t matter that the devs were surprised by player behavior, though. That is part of the evolution of the game, like everything else. The devs are also on record as being happy by being surprised by player behavior because it helps them to make a stronger game.
So what was the solution when players used the original wide-open API to make add-ons like the OG Decursive? Did Blizzard shut down the whole system and disallow add-ons completely? No they did not. They adjusted the API.
I still have never seen any evidence for the original statement that WoW was designed to be played without add-ons. There may have been a debate about the matter during development – that is completely normal and not proof. It launched with an open API. Boom.
It would take me a while to dig up that quote, but Blizzard’s take has always been that the game can be played fine without addons. Rather they want players to feel like addons are optional, or something like that.
At Blizzcon the Arena tournament does not allow any addons, but it does allow in-game scripts.
I don’t recall if the raiding competitions at Blizzcon allow addons or not. Could only find videos of their observer UI with a quick search.
I think if Blizzard really wanted to break raiding addons they would just do that. Players like Sco have a ton of Weak Auras stuff that does everything from show him defensive cooldowns to raid messages.
People aren’t understanding me, because my wording is just bad and I take responsibility for that.
They provided us with an open API allowing for add-on development. This obviously means that they expected and probably even wanted people to develop add-ons. On the other hand, if players didn’t play with add-ons, that was fine, too.
That is why the game remains playable without add-ons to this day-- unless you’re a high-end raider where I think you might run into problems.
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Barron Geddon had a random mechanic that affected 1 random player every now and then out of a 40 player raid. That 1 player then had to not mess up. Not hard at all.
What made Archimonde in Battle for Mount Hyjal unique until among bosses until then was that it had a difficult mechanic that affected EVERYONE in the raid simultaneously. And EVERYONE then had to handle the mechanic exactly right without messing up.
Think of it as Baron Geddon where every raider gets affected by Bomb simultaneously and then has to move to a safe distance from every other raider. It was orders of magnitude tougher than Barron Geddon.
Vanilla had no fights with mechanics like that. However, such mechanics are fairly common in mythic raiding today.
K that sounds a lot like c’thun where everyone has to handle the mechanic or else they die or wipe part of the raid or the whole raid if everyone messes up. Essentially my question is if one person messes up the mechanic and no one else does, does the raid wipe?
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Wrote a very long and massive wall of text…
Lets sum it up this way instead…
Not all raid wipes are direct, most are indirect raid wipes. These typically take place when key members of the raid group are killed or too many resources have been consumed because some one caused massive damage to the raid itself.
These kinds of wipe mechanics are subtle and can result in your group getting wiped at 3% boss HP, even though the “Wipe” took place 4 min earlier when some one failed at the eye beam or killing the tentacle like they were suppose too.
Many Vanilla raid bosses were like this.
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Yeah I get that, what I’m mainly pointing out with c’thun is everyone needs to stay spread properly to not bounce the beam around the raid, I take that as a somewhat raid wide mechanic that can tank the raid even if one person don’t follow it. I’m more iterested in what archimonds mechanic is where everyone has to follow and if one person fails it’s a wipe.
Specifically that one or are you asking about are there mechanics like this in Vanilla?
I never raided past vanilla and someone said that archimond is the first encounter they hit that has a mechanic where one person messes up and it’s a wipe, my understanding is also that everyone in the raid had to deal with this mechanic. I’m curious to know this mechanic and see if it is intact different than the raid wipe mechanics in vanilla.
Edited for clarity.
The only one I remember now, and take this with a grain of salt because its been 10 years… I tried like the dickens to remember but was actually remembering a few things wrong… Here is the following of what can go wrong with Archimond.
Fear & Doom fire are the problem if fear is not dispelled you can randomly run into doomfire while feared.
It’s a very dispel heavy fight, like a lot of Vanilla if your raid is down too many people you cannot kill him before the time limit and then its a wipe.
Healing and dispel mechanics are crucial for survival.
Doesn’t sound anything special mechanics wise from vanilla stuff. Hypothetical mechanic here: everyone needs to go stand in 1 spot if one person doesn’t stand in that spot he wipes the whole raid. This is the type of mechanic idea I was picturing.
Molten Core, “you’re the bomb”
That can wipe a raid if people are all clumped up and don’t know to move the hell out when they get the debuff.
Pets can also get the deubuff and if the player is not paying attention he can wipe the raid by not dismissing his pet by killing the tank at a bad time. =)
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Yeah but only one person is the bomb so only one person has to deal with said mechanic at a time. While what I’m trying to say is a mechanic where everyone in the raid needs to deal with it hitting them all at the same time and all having to do it right, one person does it wrong and it wipes the raid.
Imagine this entire floor turns to lava other than one little spot. If someone stays in the lava and doesn’t go into the spot intime his body boils/explodes and lava overflows the one free spot and wipes the raid.
There is nothing that I can remember that’s so hyper critical in any of Vanilla or TBC that would instant kill the raid.
It’s very important to remember that Vanilla PVE is also tied to resource management. As a result the loss of a couple healers could be a wipe. It may not be instant, but it very well could be the end of that fight a few min later.
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