It’s difficult for different reasons. Mechanics are a joke compared to retail, but the catch is consumables are far more expensive and there are plenty of mechanics where if one person out of 40 screws up, it’s a wipe.
Another interesting little fact; as he levels up your tanks ability to avoid and not get get destroyed by crushing blows goes down.
People now days thing they’re going to be able to just AFK Vanilla content are going to be sorely mistaken because their characters cannot fly across the raid map, they cannot self heal in most cases and do not have “oh crap” buttons to push because that’s just not part of the game.
Old Nefarian has some really cool mechanics too… But most of these people don’t know about any of that because they never did the content.
Meanwhile they’re saying how easy things are… Have they forgotten that not only does a raid need to show up with all 40 squirrels but also get all 40 to also obey the raid mechanics…
I suspect the private servers have quite a lot wrong with them… Skipping phases of fights may be possible with AQ level gear, but that killing Rag with greens and sub level 60’s that don’t even have anywhere near a hit cap nor do they have any FR gear… Riiiiight…
I hear its 100% possible on the private realms… But private realms as you and I know are total BS regarding authenticity…
In before Ironsides…
5 Likes
I think the term ‘mechanics’ itself is a problem. We didn’t call it that back in the day. I highlighted this because it is so true, even for trash, maybe especially on trash in some cases lol.
1 Like
Sometimes the wipe is not immediately self evident. Sometimes the wipe is on delay because that mistake cost your raid valuable resources such as mana. In turn your raid is now not going to kill the boss because your healers are OOM at 4% HP…
3 Likes
1 Like
WoW smells just like me
100% failed to observe the mechanic and wiped the raid LOL!
1 Like
Getting players to show up and do raid mechanics wasn’t that hard if you had dedicated raiders on your team. Certainly that was the case for all upper-tier raiding guilds and raid groups back in vanilla.
It was actually even more so then that it is now.
Why? Quite simple really:
Back in Vanilla there was a very small number of raiding guilds on each server. Finding one with a compatible raiding time to your schedule was often difficult. Getting into a good guild with a compatible schedule even more so.
Because there was such a small number of raiding slots at the high end, there was an enormous amount of competition for those slots. The result: When you managed to secure a raiding slot in one of those groups you defended it with your life. You knew that if you failed to perform, you would probably lose the slot and not be able to find another.
The result: Extremely high on-time attendance rates with fully-prepared raiders who had read up on strategy guides for every fight before we got their and who came fully prepared with all possible consumables regardless of the expense.
Of course this only applied to upper tier progression guilds back in vanilla (figure the top 5 or 6 raid groups on each server). I’m sure it got more lax the lower you went on the progression totem pole.
This is not quite the case in Retail. With cross-server raiding, bigger servers, and the group finder tool there is pretty much an endless supply of pug raiders ready to fill in any slot at any difficulty level. I also find that players tend to be a bit more slack about coming to raid with max consumables and homework done.
There was an exception where Vanilla attendance was harder: Back in Vanilla if your guild got stuck on progression too long it was highly likely that some top people in your guild would quit. They were fed up with being stuck on progression and would get poached by a higher guild on the totem pole. When this happened your guild progression would stall out as you tried to gear and equip replacements. During that time you’d lose more players and so on.
This “death spiral” was something that happened back in Vanilla and could easily destroy a guild or raiding group. It also created a ripple effect that could affect every guild on the server further down the totem pole since the only place to get recruits was from less-progressed raid groups on your server.
In Retail, the “death spiral” is much less likely to happen because the pool of replacements is much, MUCH larger.
1 Like
Yeah the whole guild dynamic of Vanilla vs Modern even in the same guild that I have been in for ages now… It’s just different.
I think that has to do with as you say the number of available players. Also the cross server raiding experience provided by what is essentially a mega server that Modern WoW is within it’s individual shards is why that can exist.
This is why I do not worry too much about server management of Classic WoW because its mindlessly easy to implement, it’s just complicated to detail the nuances of because you want to preserve the community.
3 Likes
Mechanic wise the raids are pretty simple, the difficult is mainly on proper gearing and the few mechanics that do exist can be absolutely devastating.
Baron geddon, probably the first mechanically difficult fight, simply because of a debuff you run out, yeah it’s simple, yeah it’s easy, but there are 40 people in that raid and not all of them are gonna understand basic mechanics like that, or have reaction time to not stomp other players out.
The wow community from its inception, has been filled with terrible players that make braindead mechanics a nightmare.
Then you get into more rough stuff like ZG, or AQ where the difficulty curve drastically raises, and the lessers who could skim by in the other tiers make you want to smash your face into a truck.
2 Likes
Yes, and that is one thing that makes modern better than vanilla or TBC. Much less guild poaching, and guilds actually have a chance to progress instead of losing their geared raiders to further progressed guilds.
1 Like
Lol this is so false I don’t even know where to begin.
No, hes right. They allowed addons, but really had no idea how far they would go and didn’t plan for many things. Thats on record btw. They had to overhaul the API because the community had essentially broken the game with automatic healing addons. They didn’t make Raids assuming people would write a DBM addon, but once it existed it trivialized the entire game so they now make encounters around the assumption DBM exists.
Point being if you make a system with a WIDE array of possibilities you likely aren’t accounting for all of those. So no, the original game was not taking into account all the complete game ruining concepts that addons spawned. Its kind of like saying, If Valve had not designed CS:S to be played with protruding butthole wallpapers they would not have launched the game with wallpapers.
1 Like
C’thun 100%, Viscidous(SP), Vael and barron gheddon if u really want. unless you mean a bomb is a critical role. If this is the case name me a mechanic that’s not “critical” and can wipe the raid in archimonde.
C’thun kill before Naxx even released:
Can’t wait for peoples’ tanks to get crapped on by Molten Giants and then see them come here and cry that it must be overtuned. It’ll mainly be the people who have never played vanilla.
Healers also have it easy now compared to back then.
3 Likes
Yes but if he targets a person on the run into the room and that person doesn’t move raid wipes.
That’s true.
I just find the video hilarious as it was considered one of the hardest fights in the game and it gave the highest ilvl loot. This hunter is keyboard turning, clicking EVERYTHING at random and even typing in the chat to his healer.
And this was apparently their first kill.
not keyboard turning just keyboard moving, he turns with his mouse. I will add that I do this also and then use my mouse to pan the view around.
2 Likes
Classic raiding is a lot easier individual skill requirement-wise, but the prep time needed is very high and wipes are punished a lot more harshly. Let’s compare mythic BoD and Naxx. Mythic BoD is harder in the player skill department by a landslide, but wiping is inconsequential as you can just try again in 2 minutes or less from the time the last person died. The consumes you wasted look you a couple minutes to farm at most. Wiping on a boss can cause you a 10 to 15 minute run back to the boss if the painful trash doesn’t respawn (it will every hour or two). Those consumes you lost took you probably 15 to 20 minutes to farm.