Lol. Gus has that face mask. I don’t!
MC was never hard. It was very straightforward. However, the only blocker was Rag, FR and time. People will scoff at this. But here’s the deal. When MC was released, gear and talents were garbage. So what does that mean. That means Rag took more time to die. The longer the fight takes, the more mana it takes. Well, guess what, our healers and cast dps ran OOM in the beginning. Farming Ony for its +15FR clock was a must, for a decent portion of the raid.
Note, I didn’t say everyone. The less damage you took, the less chance healers ran OOM. The rest were people catching up in gear. People also poop on mage T1, but in some instances it was BiS early on. Mana mattered. There was little spell power let alone hit.
My mage buddy wanted it because it looked cool. I had a similar experience with the draconian deflector but I didnt farm it as hard (wound up getting skullflame shield to drop instead)
Ah I understand now. Thanks for explaining.
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? Nothing I said suggests MC is difficult.
I’m well aware, my guild had the first Ragnaros kill on Shadowsong, which was one of the first servers to launch in the US.
Ragnaros took something like 180 days to kill because people didn’t know what BiS was, or even what the right talents were. I remember many Warriors in my guild using full Valor and Mortal Strike nonstop.
Hard is relative, especially after 14 years. I think initially, as we learned how to game and what proper setups were and whatnot, there was a clear difficulty that differed from UBRS and other smaller dungeons.
Hrm. I think I was agreeing with you ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Or maybe i didn’t come across that way. I’m at work. so I’m alt tabbing lol.
I can’t speak for warriors. I only maged. But now that I think about it, we didn’t have a ton of warriors starting out, but that changed as time went on.
Sorry I read your first sentence as a reply to mine, not really an agreement, so I was confused.
And yeah, for awhile, we had all sorts of classes and people with weird specs. By the time we server-firsted Vael, though, everyone was much much better and we itemized well.
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I’ll bite. It’s every game’s destiny to be completely mastered.
But how many people even on pservers knew how to game the mechanics like this? What percent of guilds on pservers are at this level?
When we get classic online, if 1% of warrior tanks know how to game the mechanics like this, and blizzard addresses the issue to curb them, 99% of all other tanks will falter.
How should they address this so they don’t break the game for most people?
First and foremost the need to start the correct content in the correct patches. Rolling out Naxx talents when MC is out is what gives those private server All Stars such an edge in clearing content. Adding in 16 debuff slots will make day 1 Shadow Priests somewhat feasible.
This isn’t a bad thing, but it is still further from Vanilla and Molten Core than even private servers dared.
Adding ZG and BWL together isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but again, it will diminish some of BWL by allowing casters another power spike in the vein of Bloodvine gear. So instead of ZG being post-BWL and a stepping stone to BWL, good guilds are going to further along, quicker, and this is even before BGs come out if I remember correctly.
I completely agree that games are to be mastered and also enjoyed.
By rolling back talents and starting where they should be, the game will be much, much harder for those 99%ers. And you can’t say they will outright fail. With the knowledge we have available and the skillsets some people have acquired, it won’t be the same as learning on the fly and starting from scratch without a single resource. The 1% have a bit more to chew on, and the casuals will appreciate a Molten Core that isn’t crushed week 2.
If they are going to add sharding and loot trading, right-click reporting, keeping 16 debuffs on launch before their necessity, they are eroding the fabric of what is actually Vanilla, again, I think even more so than private servers.
I actually still believe in Blizzard. I think this project has potential. But they need to tread carefully.
I don’t know what else they could do, as they may not have the data for old talents or the correct code for old mechanics. But they should at least consider an 8 debuff limit as a foundation, in addition to considering threat changes.
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If they do 1.12.1, do 1.12.1. If they want to do progressive talents, do progressive talents.
Not some weird hybrid.
Why should warrior threat be changed from 1.12.1 values if priests get to use their updated talents / spell cast times for all of vanilla that were only changed in 1.10?
Yeah that makes sense. It’s a slippery slope either way, so they’re probably going to go with the one with the least margin for error, that being 1.12.
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- Probably at the extremes of the bell curve, but I have my doubts about the average gamer.
- Definitely true, far fewer mechanics in vanilla, than what I’ve seen in raids these days (only read about mind you, i don’t currently raid)
- Definitely
- Not everyone, but the top tier guilds will.
Having been part of two different server first guilds back in vanilla, I don’t think anyone at the top of their game will have difficulties in MC/Ony/BWL. But my guess is that the average guild won’t faceroll classic content.
The problem with comparing vanilla to classic, or vanilla to pservers is that in vanilla it greatly depended on ‘when’ you did the content. Raiding MC was a very different experience in early 2005, than it was in late 2006, or hell even late 2005 vs early '05. Downing Huhu in AQ was a very different experience pre and post 1.11 because of the NR gear updates.
I’m sure there are a dozen more examples folks could point to in this regard.
Probably a very small percentage. The majority of folks I see spouting vanilla gospel only have pserver experience. I’ll be the first to tell you that I don’t remember everything, and I often need to look things up these days when discussing vanilla. And I was in a vanilla raid environment in some form or fashion from March '05 until Nov '06. Vanilla was a long time ago, and the memory fades a bit.
My warrior and DH riskign pulling this non-existant threat is actualyl really, not counting skittish weeks ofc.
Warriors,mages,rogues and locks.Yes they had to jump through hoops to achieve it but it’s there.
Back in Vanilla, I played on Uther in a guild that was always fighting it out with two other guilds for realm firsts ( up to AQ40) . We literally raided 20+ hours a week. It was a lot of work, a lot of frustration, and a hell of a lot of fun. But the competition for firsts was friendly back then. We were always gracious when we came in second or third. And vice versa.
Of course, back then I wasn’t married or had children. I can barely manage 5-10 hours a week these days
plus 1000000000000.
Regarding Bloodvine Gear, that @#$% was so @#$% broken. lol.
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Actually it’s not a waste of time because the very small portion of time when threat simply did not matter was the very last few months of Vanilla.
The majority of Vanilla game play involved threat management, and it’s a massive part of the raid experience.
Ignoring that fact of history is just plainly stupid.
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Didn’t quote your whole post but I can see you actually know what the heck is going on… Unfortunately a lot of people just don’t because they did not raid Vanilla.
Trying to explain the situation to them is difficult because Vanilla and how things were handled was a very different time as opposed to all the rest of WoW.
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Not ignoring, and by all means I think everybody should still advocate for earlier threat, and itemization.
But if I had to guess, Id say that Blizzard is happy to have a faceroll MC, since it’s still technically “no changes” because 1.12. It gives raiding access to a lot of more casual players similar to LFR, and there’s still challenging raids for the more serious raiders if they want to put in the time and effort. It’s like a perfect scenario for Blizzard.
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That’s embracing the catch up mechanic WoW that was Naxx Era, and overall that’s just not the bulk of World of WarCraft Vanilla.
The majority of the game play existed before 1.11.
If I had my way and I were forced to pick between 1.10 and before or a raw 1.12 version, I would go without the inclusion of Naxx simply because the threat side of things breaks the rest of the game.
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Initially you used to have a “3 sunder rule” before DPSing. This was even into BWL when guilds didn’t 1 or 2 tank Vael but needed numerous swaps because their DPS wasn’t up to par.
As things changed it got better for tanks and DPS alike. But now we are the point where tanks in very good guilds on private servers are forced to go Fury/Prot and disregard shield slam in favor of Enrage stacking, eating extra crits, and using Deathwish. Just to stay ahead of Mages who have mastered how to roll Ignites for 3 or 4 minutes nonstop.
I’ll admit most guilds will never achieve this point of mastery, and the core of private server architecture likely has boss resistance and armor values off enough that you won’t see Warlocks hitting Thaddius for 40k soul fires.
But the point remains that if we are going to get a chance to back with Chromie and visit her in WPL, we should at least consider going back truthfully. If it’s off the table it’s off the table. But I’ll discuss it until a Blue posts enough of an update that there is no need.
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This, and considering they do indeed have all the older versions of WoW before 1.12 contrary to what the trolls say; there is no excuse not to have OG threat management and no excuse to not have the OG version of AV.
These are core to the “Vanilla” experience.
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