Classic raiding and know-it-All's

You know the argument you’ve seen countless times that goes:

  1. Gamers nowadays are significantly better than in 2005

  2. Raids in vanilla had no mechanics

  3. All the strategies are known

  4. Therefor everybody will faceroll Molten Core, Onyxia, BWL, and AQ.

My question to you is, what percentage of people making this argument have never themselves been in a guild who was one of the first on their server clearing this content?

My gut says 9 out of 10 people making this claim never pioneered this themselves yet are acting like know-it-all’s.

Here is how I feel this will go down. If the following two conditions are met you will see a significant challenge in MC/Ony and a tremendous challenge in BWL/AQ.

  1. You are part of one of the first guilds on your server (let’s say the top 6 guilds per server or top 3 guilds per faction per server) clearing the top raid content before the next raid content is released i.e. you are clearing MC/Ony before BWL is released. Or clearing BWL before AQ is released.

  2. The leadership of the guild you are running with does not have recent and vast private server raid experience.

I feel the misnomer on how easy classic raiding is, is stemming from: People hopping on a private server, months after its release. And joining guild raids or pickup raids for MC that are led by extremely talented, geared, and experienced players.

So yes. Under those circumstances and led by that kind of leadership MC is a faceroll.

Now go try it without those experienced leaders. You’ll get through it easier than you would have in 2004. But you’re going to wipe.

So again, what’s your guess on what percentage folks asserting how easy classic raiding will be have never done it themselves without being carried?


Likely the answer is ZERO, and I would even be so bold to say that the majority of them never set foot into AQ or Naxx until long after Vanilla was out-dated.


the key thing with the first raids will be stats, just like it was in vanilla. That will mean gear, and builds. If you don’t have a raid that is properly geared, you are going to have difficulties.

One of the main reasons why Dire Maul should not be in Stage 1 release. gear from that dungeon will make the first two raids a lot easier to complete.


I love these folks. I am amused at the people that swear MC will be down with in two weeks of launch. I may very well eat crow but I am certain if it is, it only happens because Limit or Method choose to roll in classic.


Quite a few people are probably not speaking truthfully.

Myself, I main-tanked for Apathetic on Shadowsong during 2004 and we achieved a great many server firsts, all the way until our first guild split.

I’ve also been playing on private servers now for over half a decade.

Molten Core is very easy for me personally, but I’ve still wiped in there. I’ve wiped in there with very good guilds during speed clear tests because 1 person had their BigWigs off and was listening to music when they became the bomb on Geddon. It happens.

For people who joined the private server race late, yes, they’re more than likely joining guilds with players who know how to set up healing rotations, dispel priority targets, assign loot for raid optimization and based on performance, etc.

But I still firmly believe with the wealth of knowledge we have before us on Google and from our peers, and due to certain aspects of gated content being released (debuff limits, of spell power gear, and Dire Maul gear), that Molten Core is going to be pretty easy for the standard guild.


Well, the first three points are true. Players clicked abilities, didn’t always have consumables, didn’t know how to play their class, didn’t use the best talents, or didn’t use the best debuffs for the limited debuff slots.

Point two is true when compared to today’s raids. LFR is closer to the amount of mechanics, but vanilla most likely being more punishing for screw ups.

Point three… well yeah. There’s no disputing that.

Now, I don’t expect a complete face roll. MC I can see being an easy warm up, but everything after that I expect more resistance as people relearn mechanics and nail down strats.

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My gut says 99,999 out of 100,000. Just a bit of a difference between 10% and .001%


Many of the people claiming this hopefully are much better than in 2005. I’m on the side that you speak of. In vanilla I was new to computer games, keyboard turned and had no idea what I was doing; since then i’ve been rank one 3 times in arena and have missed it by one win 3+ times too. People definitely get better and the raids WILL be jokingly easy if 1) you’ve significantly improved yourself and 2) you pair yourselves with other people who have significantly improved. Of course there will always be bad players to keep the raids “in check” but the player base is so broad that I wouldn’t be worried about the difficulty one way or another.


It was in on release for Asia and EU?

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people get better at things with practice, points 1-3 are actually true

gear is a factor for point 4 though, how long it takes for MC to be cleared by the average player will depend on how quickly they want to level and are able to gear up. most wont clear BWL, because it takes a while to gear for

with limited loot drops and no lfg, the numbers clearing AQ and beyond again will probably be small, just like before

its not even about mechanical skill, people just get burnt out before they are geared enough for the later raids.

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“Everybody” won’t; however, a lot of people will absolutely faceroll MC, Ony, and BWL. I won’t guess about AQ.

Hey, I never played vanilla at all! The reason that I think that this will happen is that I’ve seen it happen again and again on the most “Blizzlike” of private servers. Now before you start attacking me about my lack of credentials, let me state unequivocally that I’d love it if the early raids turn out to be challenging for the guilds that are used to zerging them. In fact, nothing would make me happier.

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Dire maul was released before the first ragnaros kill anyway.


private servers are not an accurate representation of what vanilla was. If they make MC like it was, even with 1.12 talents, gear, threat generation, etc. Guild used to zerging through MC in half an hour are likely going to find, it’s not that easy.

Side note, Apathetic is a great name for a guild. Especially a competitive one.


As I clearly stated in the post you’re responding to, I very much hope this is correct.

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Even discounting experience, there’s nothing in molten core mechanically that will stop people from clearing it the first full week they can enter with enough people. The question then becomes when they get to that point.

Figure around 7 days /played for a good representation of every class for your guild to level cap and maybe Onyxia attune, and you’ll need probably around 30 to get Ony down… You’ll also need some one farming hydraxian rep to douse mc runes.

I’m not sure that milestone happens week 2, but I’d be astonished if it wasn’t being farmed by week 3 by a number of groups.


Yeah, and for all the old timey mystique around resistance gear, Paladin auras, Shaman totems, greater fire protection potions, and UBRS buff are generally enough for the entire raid in the few encounters those are necessary.

Garr might take some guilds a few attempts to logistically stomach, and Shazzrah will test others. The only issue will be main tanks having enough FR against Rag, which is usually a dilemma in the first couple weeks. Guilds that prepare for it will be funneling their tanks good greens and fishing for the few pieces that help them reach that ~375 mark.

Any guild that enters Vanilla wanting to progression raid is going to have multiple people ready to tank, others that farmed consumables, and DPS that feed their tanks gold for Stockade Pauldrons, Stonegrip Gauntlets, Medallion of Grand Marshal Morris, and defense cap them.

I think the only thing that will be difficult for some guilds is attunement. Horde side is a bit of a bear in that regard with numerous trips into LBRS as 5-man and the follow-up into UBRS. Then the Test of Skulls. Allies have it a bit easier just farming BRD first half, which you can do with 55s.


You see arguments like this with all newer vs older games honestly. Which i never fully understood, coming off from Civ 4 and going to 5 / 6 to name one, where people who went to 4 > 5 beat deity after a few games, and never got past Prince (5th difficulty out of 10.)

LFR raiders, sorta throw this talk out the window’ people still stand in fire to this day, trust me i know i see it all the time. Also the fact that many MANY more people play videogames compared to 2005, you don’t have to look far at all to understand that, and the impact.

Yes, the players who cleared MC in Vanilla are better then they are now, I sure as hell HOPE they’re better, but tons of people didn’t raid. Hell Logistics are going to ruin more guilds, then most bosses could dream of anyway.

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I keep hearing people say that older raiding is too easy but then timewalking comes and its too hard, funny how that works :stuck_out_tongue:

We’ll know for sure when classic comes out.