Were you AFK or something?
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Had to have been. Because Mages are good dps, have lots of utility, also vending machines. Are they DPS on par with fury warriors and rogue? Not really. Still good DPS though. At least when played by a competent player.
And 14 years doesn’t go anywhere when the 1 fundamental core mechanic for every boss in Vanilla no longer exists. Tell me how often you here “Okay, slow DPS” at the start of a boss fight these days? None you say? Because aggro in modern wow is pretty much impossible to steal from a tank? Caster classes couldn’t do 100% balls to the wall DPS all the time in vanilla, because if they did and didn’t watch their threat, they could pull aggro off the tank and then you have a boss potentially running loose through a raid.
The only 2 DPS classes that could go balls to the wall DPS for an entire boss fight were hunters and rogues. Only 2 classes that could completely drop their threat. Sure Feign Death and Vanish could be resisted, but rogues had feint to keep their threat under control for the few minutes until vanish was off CD and feign death had a 30 second cooldown, so they could just slow dps for a few seconds if they did get resisted then FD again.
Threat is the primary reason why bosses in Vanilla have fewer mechanics then bosses today. Because in Vanilla there was a mechanic that all bosses had that basically doesn’t exist today.
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And why are there logs of PS people pulling tier 5 levels of dps? Cause the PS crowd have figured out how to easily ignore threat as mechanic.
When threat stops mattering regen stops mattering.
When regen stops mattering it comes down to how much damage/healing you can pull off with a mana bar + consumables.
In classic fury wariors were threat dependant, now you see them running around with TF in their offhands.
How’s that?
If you did the fight in vanilla you would know exactly why mages were useless on Vael.
I’m not a PS player but I’m guessing they’re doing a couple of things
-they’re running DPS consumables.
-They’re heavily building around their talents around threat production.
-They’re also running sets of gear specifically bult for threat gen, Lots of SBV to up shield slam etc.
Of course I remember threat (and mana usage) on my mage.
That’s why we wanded alot. it was the manual, 1 click per wand back then too none of this “auto wand.”
And stopping your attacks and doing nothing isn’t exactly a super intense and complicated activity. It was literally watch omen and then stop.
For Onyxia all casters wanded until air phase to save mana. It was about the most boring way to start a fight imaginable.
Cool. I thought maybe they figured out how to boost initial threat better. I vaguely remember trying to boost threat with a hunter, taunting off them, and then the hunter would FD. I think it didn’t work great.
Dunno. I remember my mage buddy loving it since he never ran out of mana. Vael didn’t have any spell reflection or immunity to frost/arcane that I recall.
Private servers… Think about what you’re saying for a minute. They’re fan made servers that factually do not function the same nor do they calculate things in the same way.
If you are familiar with even the most basic high school level math then you know that the order of operations can change things in a enormous way.
Then factor in 1.11+ Threat management VS original pre-naxx threat management. Those two things in addition to ZG era 16 slot debuff limit can equate to a massive gain in DPS because the game is factually and mechanically different from the grand expanse of its life cycle.
Also lets also not forge that the classes them selves had things added that made the game play easier as time went on.
Meaning Raids and Dungeons of the MC / BWL / Ony era are 1/4th the difficulty level they were when the game shipped due to the huge number of changes.
Then factor in additional gear that simply did not exist when these raids first shipped and you have a situation where it’s a cake walk, and not even remotely comparable to the situation of early original Vanilla.
Private servers might be fun, but they are far from accurate.
Except thats the version we’re working with.Bringing up a now extinct threat cap is a waste of everyones time.
Only for US players.The rest of the world had access to said gear. Also, The gear will be dropping with their relevant content buckets so they will not exist in the early content, similar I believe how the more recent Private servers have been doing it.
Still doesn’t change the fact you need 200 dps to beat rag before submerge (based off original numbers ).People are going to be doing that with ease.fact of the matter is ranged dps are not limited to threat on rags either, it’s only the meelee that have to worry about it.
Yeah I’m very curious as to how Blizzard will handle the threat discussion. The last time we ran Naxxramas I used Thunderfury and Hungering Cold and didn’t use a shield except for Loatheb and Sapphiron.
I ran exclusively 31/20 Fury/Prot and outpaced everyone by 30-40% threat.
When your healers are that geared and the content is that much farmed, you just have tanks do more damage to do threat. The entire concept of Shield Slam disappears once you have 1200 unbuffed AP, soft cap hit, and crit cap without world buffs. You just spec Deathwish, eat more crits and proc Enrage, Flurry goes off, and Thunderfury being scaled by Human racial and Hungering Cold, GG.
People really don’t understand how much the game has been mastered. Private servers aside, Blizzard will have to address this.
Starting off with 1.12 and adjusted threat with 16 debuffs?
I’ll probably try to tank MC without a shield TBH.
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I keep seeing people saying this. Define “with ease”. Are we assuming BiS gear with max consumables? Because if we are then sure, if we use later raid tires then especially. If we’re talking what people are actually going to be wearing, then no, it won’t be “with ease”. Gearing up is difficult in vanilla, you’re entirely at the mercy of RNJesus. I literally never saw the staff from scholomance drop, despite running it dozens of times a week for months on end. May not be BiS, but it’s one example
To clarify, Blizzard did nothing to the raid itself beyond scaling everything up to level 90. It was the changes to class systems that had happened over the years that got in the way.
Heh. I actually ran it my one time as a mage, and I used (the modern version of) Decursive, which helped a lot. The raid I was in was very competent in general and we got through the whole thing with only one wipe at the beginning because someone butt-pulled some trash. I considered myself lucky because there were some real horror stories about terrible groups that wiped and wiped in there to the stupidest things.
It is RNG, but the list of equal too with abit of re-shuffling is quite broad.And picking a 1% drop as an example is just abit silly.
Also why would you want that piece of crap as a dps? No hit, no spellpower,no int beyond the on use.
I guess that just illustrates 1 of the reasons why things were hard in original vanilla, people were focussing on the wrong items.
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So a few things to mention through out the post of people saying.
Threat someone mentioned about managing it in vanilla the assumption because of threat run now in retail is the thought that the majority of people who will play classic is from retail with no classic exp. Probably not so much chances are the majority of those who see raiding in classic will be those who played it in vanilla or ps servers so as a player who has been through it you know about how threat is handled in vanilla.
Now to the OP:
1: Yes they are better however in a sense of prepping and skill. Most guild that are looking to go hardcore raiding or even focus on raiding will have there ducks in order before even even going day 1 of raiding. This includes links to videos, diagrams, spreadsheet for BiS, raid composition etc. Knowledge to all the loot tables. Unlike 2005 where you for the most part were learning as you go most of the knowledge is upfront its just executing it. People will be going into these raids gear ready and mechanics on memory.
- Yes and no, No not as many mechanics as some of the today’s current raids but still come with mechanics none the less. In both iterations of the game most if not all mechanics are scripted meaning they will always happen at the same trigger. If said mob does this at 30% health it will always be that way, you will always know at 30% this mechanic is happens and this is how you counter it or react to it.
3: Ya pretty much nothing new is happening with these bosses.
4: again yes and no. You still need 40 people, you still need the right raid composition and the gear to boot these will take come guilds more than other time however you are gonna be hard pressed to find guilds that aren’t gonna go into these raids more than prepared and geared making these raids much easier this next go around. There will defiantly be guilds that hit road blocks but yes there will be some that will steamroll and move to the next.
The entire fight there is a pulsing aoe that adds a ton of spell pushback.
As a mage you only have 1 spell to cast the entire fight. Frostbolt.
Base 3.0 sec cast talented to 2.5 sec from improved frostbolt. The pulsing aoe makes every cast take about 3.5 seconds.
Your damage output was pathetic, and the only fun part was your 10s of instant high damage if you got the debuff before you died.
We went as low as letting even level 58-59 rogues come in over casters for that fight.
2 things.
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You fundamentally didn’t understand the meaning of what I posted. Threat was a mechanic in Vanilla. It’s not a mechanic in modern wow. In modern wow threat may as well not even exist.
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Private servers are not accurate representations of what vanilla was. Also “logs” showing high DPS, doesn’t mean that they weren’t being very cognizant of their threat. Or that classes other then rogues and hunters were going balls to the wall for an entire fight. And which class is pulling “Tier 5” levels of DPS? Fury warriors? I bet it’s fury warriors.
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Maybe you’re mistaking him for me? We have similar avatars. lol.
I’m the one that wants the re-tune ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Fixed it for you.