There absolutely will be guilds clearing MC for the first time. Guilds who never played vanilla and never played on Pservers. I encountered this even on pservers. I was in a guild where they were progressing through MC. I’d say maybe 4-5 of us had actually run it before. The guilds for new people to classic will always appeal to those players.
There will be a lot of people who know what they are doing. I feel like they will be the minority even then.
The average player will likely be worse in classic then live if they are coming from it… that said the average wow player has been on a downward skill spiral since cata.
Raiders and above average players in bfa will find classic exceedingly easy until later tiers like AQ and Naxx.
I agree with 1-3, but not 4.
Didn’t kill C’thun, but did the rest of AQ40 and cleared Spider Wing in Naxx before pre-expansion apathy killed our raiding aspirations until BC.
Woo hoo 1%!
I can see people not entering naxx till tbc it wasn’t a easy thing to do unless you ran a lot of scholo.
People love to make Naxx out to be the mythical instance, but it isn’t. Don’t get me wrong, the margin for error was tiny and it was punishing. But fact is, if TBC wasn’t around the corner, more guilds would have cleared it. A lot more.
The only real challenge with Molten Core is getting 30+ people in decent gear that can follow basic directions on Northdale (back when only MC/Ony were out) and almost certainly Classic as well. Blackwing Lair is the first real challenge I’d say because it requires everyone to be on top of their game, but it isn’t too hard if people know what they are doing and follow directions. AQ40 is where it starts to get brutal (exception is the first boss is easier than Chromag and Nefarian in BwL). Never did Naxx but I heard that it was ultra cancerous.
Is MC as easy as LFR? Heck no! You still have to follow mechanics and have decent gear.
Outside of gearing issues I don’t think that the early raids will pose much of any issues to the average WoW player now adays.
Actually it’s probably more like 9.9/10 people never pioneered anything at any level of content including Naxx. So I don’t think this is even a relevant point especially given that most people won’t even have to wait for someone else to figure things out first anymore.
I don’t understand the massive 180 you’ve made, awhile ago you were crusading for a numbers tweak, now you’re denying that people won’t be stomping it due to it being too hard.
You realize “move out with the bomb” which was so novel in MC is featured simultaneously with 3-5 other mechanics in most raid encounters today with similar catastrophic failure consequences and nobody cares because it’s such a joke mechanic now?
“Similar catastrophic consequence” =/= joke mechanic.
I think you missed the entire point of my post.
Tuning on timewalking is a mess and theres a few incredibly wonky mechanics due to system changes. In a guild group timewalking is a cake walk and unless an instance has time-gating (black morass) we can normally stomp the places in under a heroism debuff.
Being paired up with people who couldn’t find their backside with both hands,a map and Siri increases the difficulty beyond realistic measures,especially if they’re a tank or healers.
They released MC as LFR instance in WoD. It was hilariously stomped into the mud even with massive mechanical changes that hampered a raids ability to deal with tings.
Watching mages die to curses was hilarious.
I can almost guarantee that Razorgore will still result in more guild strife than it did back then. That fight is pure teamwork, gear, and proper group construction.
BWL is still going to be a challenge for guilds that are mostly comprised of people who have not done it.
Luckily, MC gives guilds a chance to work on getting their siht together.
I’m trying to picture how a boss like Vael, and the extreme class stacking it encouraged, would be viewed in retail.
A boss that supplied infinite rage and energy that has most of the fight in execute range.
And casters get to deal with a pulsing aoe spell pushback.
Can’t wait for whichever guilds stream the first “classic” kill to bring an entire raid dps of warriors and rogues.
So basically most of the top PS guilds? Last time I checked one of their vids they had 13 warriors in their raid group.
Would love to know how they keep them all geared evenly.
Here’s how I see it. Yes, players on average are better than they were back in vanilla. Yes, a higher % of players will probably clear raids this time around. That being said, I’ve raided on a vanilla private server (Nostalrius) and was in a casual raiding guild. No joke, it took us like a month to clear BWL and we would still wipe on certain bosses in MC and not only that, we were ‘‘competing’’ against other guilds that also took about just as long as we did to clear it.
Personally, I do not think that the raids are mechanically difficult but I also think that people underestimate them. Sure, from your personal standpoint, it might be easy, but getting through it as a guild can be a totally different story, especially when you have to deal with 39 other people. I would also like to throw in that I’ve watched plenty of guilds stream their raids on Twitch/Youtube and I’ve seen plenty of them spend entire raid nights trying to down a boss and sometimes they wouldn’t even kill the boss before the guild fell apart. Some guilds make it look incredibly easy with their min maxing / perfect raid comp / world buffs / BIS gear / great players / experience and I feel that some people watch these speed run videos and just assume that’s how it’s going to be for everyone.
I will say this though, all of the raids will be cleared in a day ( Except for raids that are out at release since people gotta level up first. ) by the elite private server guilds. Due to how dedicated and experienced they are with them.
You’re a flawless example of what the OP is talking about.
Except that I actually raided in vanilla and have first had experience on how much of a total noob I was back then while still doing AQ40?
And how for Vael we has anyone that had a rogue or warrior alt being their a for a kill? I didn’t so I got to bring my 100% useless mage.
And 14 years of experience goes A LONG way in adapting and overcoming mechanics?
I am sure this has been voiced before but I feel it can’t hurt repeating. I feel like most of the people that make such claims of how “easy” we had it back then, and how simple it will be for players to beat it now, just are not taking some basics into account. I tend to agree that the majority of these players were not actually playing the content at the time of release, and are basing their opinions on their experiences in modern WoW, which includes some basic changes that they are overlooking or just ignoring. First, try to “faceroll” any of the original raids without cross-realm functionality and LFG. Second, if you could manage to pull that off as a 25 man, then pat yourself on the back and go man up and try that in the original 40 man raid format. No mechanics required? Are you kidding? Without mechanics, we might as well ALL just pull a Leroy and call it a night because it isn’t going to work out well. Anyone that successfully took down Ony will likely remember watching a specific youtube video and spending the next week listening to “caw caw im effin onyxia!” in raid chat! Players that don’t think we had to deal with mechanics back then are very misinformed. Hell, even hunter pets had more mechanics than we require in LFG. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but do not mistake it for fact. And for those of you that DID run 40-man anything and succeed back pre-BC, you have my utmost respect! I made it as far as defeating Rag in MC but we just could not really progress much farther in the content. So we had ZG, Ony, and MC. The rest we just could not finish due to either lack of skill or lack of skilled bodies. No mechanics… That is just silly!
The mechanics in vanilla were fundamentally different in so many ways. For starters, mobs took a lot more damage to kill, and there was no one-shotting elites even half your level either.
Also, coordinating 40 players is a feat in itself, no wonder many raid leaders were like drill sergeants. The funny thing is, the kids these days are too entitled to be called out for failing. The requirements for success were so much different; I don’t think the kids these days could handle it! (pun not originally intended)—they’ll go back to being spoon fed their purples in BfA.
Two words: Four Horseman.