Classic raiding and know-it-All's

The work’s been done.
The formulas were tested.
Video evidence is there proving the formulas to be correct on numerous bosses, even though the formulas are from the same time era.

It’s a strawman because
a) you’re literally putting an arbitrary equation together and saying that because your COMPLETELY RANDOM equation can be changed to affect things differently, and that because yours is completely random, mine must be random as well.
b) it’s tested to be that way on private servers, specifically kronos’ and light’s hope.

Sorry you can’t understand simple math? Sorry the timestamped videos I put up there are beyond your grasp? The videos are proof and I’ve laid it out for anyone with a brain to understand. The beast lore’d Maexxna image proves the accuracy.

You can’t prove me wrong because I’m right. Empirically. You’ve got nothing except your feelings. You’re a clown.

Nope didn’t imply that at all, but strawmans and all that.

Link me the original source code to vanilla and the vanilla databases right now then. If you don’t have those, you can present all the player testing in the world, it doesn’t mean a damn thing without being able to be compared to the real thing.

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Because you ignored the first part of my post. The extent PS players go to was not anticipated by the dev team and I don’t think changing the data will make that much of a difference as people will just adapt.

I know how far players will go to create a wider window or easier time of things. I was there I was involved and I know just how effective stacking consumables actually is.

Yes it’s ridiculous and yes it’s a problem, but in truth it’s not a hard problem to remedy; that’s something that they did do in TBC because it was a problem.

However that’s a different argument. Both situations contribute to the problem, and you can’t ignore the other because they both contribute, but the problem I am having a tough time getting across is the the math is super important.

Needless to say I am done arguing that point because you all don’t see just how valuable that problem actually is; what you’re also not understanding is that I know that it will not entirely fix things, and that still does not matter

You don’t know just how terrible video evidence is I can see. You can get close, but your video evidence with out all the facts will never paint the entire picture and display too you the inner working mechanisms of the calculations as they happen and in what order they take place.

No matter how you break it down; without getting insanely lucky there is no reasonable way to gain 100% true accuracy.

The best you can hope for is tuning that mirrors a very specific state of gear / boss / raid comp situation, and even that’s shaky once you move on to the next boss or select the wrong talent in a seemingly unrelated class.

0:26 700 BT (crusader on) (5x sunder, faerie fire, gift of arthas, hemorrhage)
0:34 615 BT (no crusader) (5x sunder, faerie fire, gift of arthas, hemorrhage)

700 - 615 = 85 damage boosted by crusader
Crusader should add 200 * 1.1 * 0.45 = 99 damage.
1 - 85/99 = amount of damage reduced by armour

Solving (x - 2250 - 505) / (60 * 85 + 400 + x - 2250 - 505) = 1 - 85.0/99
yields x = 3660.88 or 39.9621
Actual X=3731 or 40.41% dr

Being within 100 armor = statistically the same.

If you really still doubt me then it’s an issue of you being unable to understand math, not understanding the information paperdollframe.lua gave raiders back in 06, or just not wanting to accept the fact that you’re wrong.

What facts am I missing? How is it that my terrible video evidence gave me an armor value within 70? I don’t know what your hang up is on PEMDAS. After all–we’re just calculating armor values. It’s not hard. Every fury warrior video has impale. Bonuses are known. There is no guesswork with bloodthirst.

I am not trying to ruin your private server experience, I think you’re rather talented and I do think your spirit for trying to build private servers is awesome…

However I strongly encourage you as a professional one to another to please use the scientific method. I don’t know how familiar you are with it, but it will make you a better developer, a better scientist, and your research quality will be 10X better than it is.

I cannot stress just how important it is. If you’re already familiar then I encourage you to review the very long laundry list of professionals like your self who are also very talented in their trades who have failed peer review because their data collection and methodology is for the lack of better words… junk.

This is and I stand firmly by it; the number 1 reason why so many great scientists and professionals fail in the professional world, because their data collection and methodology is weak at best.

Ret = 1337 deeps

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Best I have honestly see in actual Vanilla by a very talented young man was just over 900, but who knows, maybe that’s just the tip of the ice burg?

god wills it?


You’re not ruining it. More of just irritating because I had to get out my laptop to find my old github source folder.
Date source of the below website–September 2006.
Line 246.

If you still don’t believe me. Well, that’s on you.

Might as well tag you in this post, not that you have any chance of being capable of reading the lua file.

Love you too buddy. I do have an associates in Computer Science with a focus on Software Development. So, yeah.

Anyway, where is this code from? Is this the old client code? Do you have the server code?

Edit: Hmm, appears to be a single character not the full client.

Edit 2: Without the original source code to compare private server codes against, there is no way of really knowing how accurate private servers are.

When testing something, you have to have a known good, or a control as it were, to test against or your tests mean nothing.

244 [PaperDollFormatStat](, base, posBuff, negBuff, frame, text);
245 local playerLevel = UnitLevel(unit);
246 local armorReduction = effectiveArmor/((85 * playerLevel) + 400);
247 armorReduction = 100 * (armorReduction/(armorReduction + 1));

Are we sure this came from Blizzard or was it a very well designed attempt to emulate Blizzard’s armor calculations.

I know you’re just trying to point out that the math works; I don’t dispute that the private servers operate and that they’re fun.

My contest is how accurate are they really? There are a lot of people; not just me who say that the private servers are missing the mark.

It’s from Blizzard. Just takes a bit a knowhow to access the files. Someone kept an archive on them.

Given how big the data package on Blizzard actually is regarding World of WarCraft I am not going to sift though all that.

However, I do believe the only way you can extract the data package from Blizzard is by direct access… I doubt there is a hack-door into their server that would allow you to garner that information; even then.

I hear that the Mangos build’s are based on an Alpha that’s not truly relevant to Actual Classic WoW and that it was updated to as best the could match the original game.

From what I understand it took them nearly 9 years to get things to a point where it was decently playable and more or less “blizz-like” as they call it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the very quick internet search I just did on the subject… Is this information false?

That is a lot to sift through. I only have 1 final question remaining then. Is this just the player client? Or is there server code mixed in here too?

Has builds from 04-present.

MaNGOS is built off of a Burning Crusade client and ported backwards, whether that was an alpha of it I’m not certain. I know vanilla emulation started around wrath or even earlier. 9ish years sounds about right.

You’d be surprised what you could get out of the original client. Many aspects were handled client side as opposed to server side. Hence the flying chinese gold sellers.

UI elements are handled on our side, so things like armor formulas became known, but not boss HP.

FYI guys - the Nost/Elysium/Lightshope Devs also used this as a reference guide when putting in values for mobs:

BradyGames’ World of Warcraft Bestiary includes the following:

  • Statistical information on the denizens of the World of Warcraft Universe-including HPS, Armor, Damage, Resistances, and Abilities.
  • Over 6,000 monsters filtered through over 2,000 categories.
  • Every entry will be indexed for ease of use.

This right here is kind of our point. Without the server side code, anything server side is a guess. Even if you get it right, it’s still a guess.

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see what I wrote above Dawn - it wasn’t just guesswork

Without the server code, everything server side is guesswork.

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