Thanks for the timeline. I think it would really be best however to maybe shift the battleground back one phase. If the phases are accurate to vanilla timeline, that’s way too long of a wait to do battlegrounds in my opinion. For many people that’s the most important part of the game. It would be unfortunate if players were turned away due to lack of PvP. Perhaps make the first 3-4 phases only a month each? Thanks!
I think you have misunderstood most of what I’ve posted, and I also made an extremely lengthy post before making any of these replies, and you may not have seen it: Classic PvP Content Plan - #360 by Ehks-proudmoore
As for the rest of your post, I’ll reply to each of your points.
There won’t be an honor system at launch, when most players are leveling. Also, you’d have to spend hundreds of hours to rank that much under 60 on a non-private server. It isn’t “easy”.
This was specifically in reference to the post I replied to, and I did a poor job at making a full point here for a third party reading. Regardless, I believe that this player, as well as yourself, greatly underestimates the number of players that will be able to rank up, even during phase two, and I used an example of how easy it is to gain rank even while leveling and solely from world PvP to exemplify this; however, this is anecdotal from my own experience. Getting honor and ranking at level 60 from world PvP alone will not be as much of a task as people think it is, especially before AV and WSG are released, because your rank is directly related to the other ranked PvP players on your faction, as well as how much total honor is in the pool each week for your faction. When phase 2 is released and the only source of honor is world PvP, the total honor in the pool for each week will not be nearly as large as it will be after battlegrounds are added to the game, therefore you will be able to rank up even faster than you will be able to after they are added as long as you are actively PvPing out in the world.
(google “Honor System pre 2.0” and look at the wowwiki article on this)
Have you? If so, offer specifics, rather than baselessly bash other people.
Again, rather than insult other posts, be constructive and actually discuss things.
As for these two comments, I implore you to read this player’s post and understand how far off the mark this guy is from every other post on here. I’m not even going to bother trying to defend these snarky comments I made because I think they are somewhat justified; I have no interest in opening dialogue with someone that is so clearly out of touch with vanilla content and willing to make a lengthy post detailing what he thinks should be changed in a system he clearly has limited knowledge of, if any at all.
I am very well versed on the differences between the updated PvP gear and the iteration that came before it. To directly provide a strong example against your argument, look at the differences between the pre-update rank 10 warrior shoulders and the updated version. (pre-update: Champion’s Plate Pauldrons - post-update: Champion’s Plate Shoulders). If you are able to slot enough hit in your other gear slots and don’t need to wear Truestrike Shoulders, the updated item won’t be replaced by anything from MC or Onyxia let alone pre-raid dungeons; however, the first iteration is basically worthless for PvE dps and only really viable in a PvP situation. These changes were drastic for many of the blue PvP items, let alone the rank 12+ items.
You won’t get rank 12 or rank 13 gear in phase 2. You will also probably never play with someone who does. You are underestimating how long it takes to rank. Also, assuming someone had 15 hours a day to optimally grind honor in world pvp, somehow, and get blue pvp gear by the end in phase 2, it already wouldn’t be worth it for pve compared to having bis MC and DM gear.
As for this point, I think some of it is encapsulated in my reply to your first quote. I think you underestimate how easy it will be to gain standing when the honor pool is a fraction of what it will be after battlegrounds are released. The notion of “playing for 15 hours a day to rank” stems from a misunderstanding of how the honor system actually works; of course it will be harder to rank when there are thousands of players in the pool inflating the total honor in battlegrounds. This is what makes world PvP seem worthless when trying to rank in comparison to the available honor from battlegrounds. The blue PvP gear I referenced earlier is a direct argument against your last sentence here as well.
AoE’s exist. Also, people tab target in the middle of a chaotic battle. Accidents will happen.
This still doesn’t justify removing dishonorable kills. If you are a player that is worried about your rank, you shouldn’t be trying to accomplish a pointless objective like griefing lowbies by killing quest NPC’s in Darkshire or taking part in a raid against the enemy faction’s major city. These are basically the only situations where you could accidentally kill a civilian NPC.
PvP gear won’t affect AQ40 progression. Also, I see nothing wrong with pvp gear giving an advantage in world pvp. Otherwise, why have a reward system to begin with? Should the players who put in literally 5000+ hours to rank to 13/14 not be rewarded with better gear for pvp itself? And there will always be a discrepancy between casual players and the best. It is called skill, which is very prevalent in vanilla pvp.
This is a large gap in your understanding in my opinion. Look at the updated rank 13 warrior shoulders compared to the Tier 2.5 warrior shoulders (Warlord’s Plate Shoulders and Conquerer’s Spaulders). These shoulder slots are basically equivalent in terms of using them in PvP or PvE dps; strictly referring to PvE, these items are best in slot forever for PvE dps, and the T2.5 is arguably worse than the rank 13 shoulders because of the set bonus. Not to mention that Blizzard is suggesting that these could be obtainable before BWL comes out. Especially for warriors, some of the best PvE gear you can get is from PvP, even after AQ40/Naxx is released.
That is how it was back in actual vanilla WoW. That concept is also part of an MMO. Players gaining status from items that they spent countless hours to get and then going AFK in Ironforge/Orgrimmar is part of what made the game great. Not everyone can have every item. It is that mentality that has made current WoW so terrible.
I think you misunderstood me here, we actually agree on this point. By access, I meant being able to purchase the unarmored mounts after phase 1, which was not possible in vanilla post patch 1.4 by any means.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comments! Looking forward to any rebuttals you may have.
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“This still doesn’t justify removing dishonorable kills. If you are a player that is worried about your rank, you shouldn’t be trying to accomplish a pointless objective like griefing lowbies by killing quest NPC’s in Darkshire or taking part in a raid against the enemy faction’s major city. These are basically the only situations where you could accidentally kill a civilian NPC.”
Not trying to be rude here, I just answered this question in my last post and decided to copy pasta.
In early versions of vanilla, the actual mount costed more money than the training, and they reversed this later on (e.g. 900g for epic mount vs 100g training with no discounts before the reversal). Most of us are used to the updated system where the training is what actually costs money, and I believe that’s what they said they are going to do in classic iirc.
I’m aware, and that’s the point I was making. Someone was saying that many people wouldn’t have the gold to be able to afford limited time armorless epic mounts. But if the 1.12.1 mount system is used those mounts are dirt cheap. It’s the riding skill that’s expensive. My question is if you need that riding skill unlocked to even buy the mount item, or to use the mount item. If it’s the latter, then anyone can buy the mount and unlock the ability to use it later on. Unless there’s a level requirement, which again I can’t remember. But that just means you need to hit 60 before those mounts are removed. All of this is based on the assumption these mounts will even exist at all, and if they do in a limited timeline.
On top of that, if Blizz uses the old mount system keep in mind mounts could be traded. Imagine a limited time mount that players can trade. A mad rush to get enough gold to buy it and then put on the AH for absolutely absurd prices when it’s no longer available for purchase.
And I have no recollection of Blizz saying which system they’ll use, though it stands to reason it’ll be the 1.12.1 one. Unless it’s changed to that later on.
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Makes more sense as far as rp for the mounts to cost more than the training. I dont really care either way though.
Lmao now we are punishing people who raid cities because that’s a punishable offense? You stink of retail
What you said literally translates to, “the people who are ranking will be afking in BGs, anyone who tries to rank through actual world pvp deserves to be punished!”
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Apologies I misunderstood you here.
You can buy mounts without having the training; however, you cannot use them. This is how it was in vanilla, so I would imagine they will be consistent here.
This was also the way it was in vanilla; however, I agree with your sentiment here, because if the mounts cost 90g compared to 900g when these unarmored mounts are available in phase 1, tons of people will stockpile them and then sell them later on, unlike in vanilla, where people had no idea they were going to lose access to these mounts. Also, you can’t list mounts on the AH in vanilla.
I’m almost positive you could list mounts on the AH. They were an item like any other. Until the mount system change which made them bop.
So the person advocating to keep DHK’s in the game stinks of retail, yet the player asking for it to be removed doesn’t?
Also, raiding a city is not an efficient way to gain honor in world PvP; the amount of honor you will receive in a 40 man raid will be negligible. Raiding a city is basically just an RP thing in my opinion; you don’t get anything for killing an enemy faction’s boss NPC.
You’re right here: you can list the old ones cause they aren’t BoP but not the updated versions.
Sorry for this terrible dialogue; I’ve been invested in other threads as well and my mind is all over the place with information right now.
God forbid we threaten the sanctity of classic wow by removing dishonorable kills, which were removed from the game because they served no purpose.
Brb adding right click report because that doesn’t threaten the sanctity of vanilla, or the fact that everyone knows the AQ quest and war effort requirements, or that talents are going to be 1.12 static… or that itemization is going to be 1.12 static. None of those things will change our experience will they?!?
You are literally arguing in favor of something that adds absolutely nothing to the vanilla experience other than paranoia and anxiety during city raiding.
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I don’t advocate for right click report either; I could care less how easy it is to report someone.
As for your points about people having a lower cost of accessing information compared to the state of the internet in 2004, of course they will. But for a veteran such as myself, I already know most of this information anyway so how would that impact my playing experience?
I disagree completely with your last point; dishonorable kills are an EXTREMELY effective method to prevent decked PvP players from engaging in anything remotely close to risking killing a civilian. This is why you typically see bad players harassing Darkshire or camping a flight master as opposed to the best PvPer on the server.
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I just want 1.7 AV. I really think after they lost all the money after blizzcon they trashed plans to so as much with classic. It seems instead of 1.12 being the base and putting things in from different parts of vanilla they are straight just giving us 1.12. They aren’t doing anything diff then gating the content and taking items out until later literally not deviating at all. It would be nice if they came out and just said it instead of giving us the hope that they might use different parts of vanilla that made sense. And using the lame 1.12 av is the most complete version crap. When it’s literally the version with the least stuff in it. Wtf. Idk why they are waiting so long to release now. They could have released straight 1.12 months ago if they aren’t changing anything.
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Completely false… a “veteran” such as yourself that memorized the AQ war effort requirements should know full well that every quest giver is not a civilian…
Dhks did absolutely nothing to curb griefing… you saying it did is completely wrong.
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I am fully aware of this; however, what you are talking about entails “accidentally” killing a civilian, which can easily occur if you are the kind of player that wants to kill quest givers, vendors, and other NPC’s in a town.
If you want to make an actual argument against what I said that isn’t an ad hominem attack against me, I will reply to it.
I agree with what someone else said that they should make them immune to aoe damage unless you already agro. That would help at least.
Not a terrible idea; however, I think the general sentiment here is that most players don’t want to go down a path that will lead to more variations from the original vanilla. I personally think that dishonorable kills are an interesting mechanic and not as big of a deal as most people make it out to be.
Honestly pvp is basically dead in a lot of ways, for me at least. Before honor will be nice then with honor but before bgs we will get people camping flight paths like they do on private servers. Then we get imo the worst version of av from vanilla. Its def not the vanilla experience I was expecting or wanted. I just hope the pve aspect and warsong gulch and AB can keep me interested. If not pantheon will be out soon.
You can’t add 1.12 weapons in game so early. You just can’t do that, it is unreasonable.
Back in classic it was quite bad that a R14 at start couldn’t get 1.12 R14 gear later on because of rank decay. What you can do is just allow them do purchase the new gear when it comes out.
The pvp pools will be big hence many R14s will come out and it will be just crazy. R14 two hander warrior so early is just dumb
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