What MR. X said there was a lie.
PvP in era is not doing great…
At the very least…
The context he actually meant, that he forgot to provide, doesn’t hold up to that generalized statement.
I was not kidding; seek help.
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Incorrect. The game is dictating the terms and conditions. The conditions for victory are set by the game. Battleground PvP is designed from the ground up to be competitive team sport. People have to strategize and fight it out. There are winners and losers. The better team wins.
When you hit queue for a BG you engage in a type of contract with your teammates and to almost the same extent the game itself (rules of conduct). The unspoken assumption when you join the battleground is that you are there to play on a team and play your role on that team to help your team win since that’s the whole point of joining the battleground as far as the game is concerned.
If you’re just going bypass all that to AFK, you made the decision to be a detriment to the team and quite frankly, an undeserving leech. You don’t need a single one of them to pass any judgement or mandate - you made that choice. That’s on you.
AFKing in BGs is against the rules so what does that tell you? Just say you’re personally cool with filthy, no good leeches and posers being on your team - its simply not a problem for you - instead of making everyone else accountable for your unhinged thinking.
Authoritarianism in the context of WoW would be something like we saw with the bracket mafias. Maybe you could stretch that out to the larger meta crowd who thinks if you dont play exactly like them you’re complete garbage but its more thought than action - they cant actually stop people from playing differently, they can only criticize it, so who really cares?
Reporting rule breaking, team/game wrecking AFKers is a lousy job no one wants to do or deal with, not a tyrannical act. I dont think anyone should be reported for having an off the wall spec, being a midiot in WSG or a road warrior in AB, they’re at least doing something. If you solo queue into random groups its a reasonable expectation that not everyone is looking for fun team fights over objectives towards the main goal of winning that game.
Yes, I know. AFKing, the main focus here, is a basis for reporting.
I dont report anyone because I mainly do AV and trying to report them messes with my addons. I just accept it as a fact of life and take care of my own business. I take note of the names though, so I never inadvertently help them in anyway. Sometimes, when Im given the opportunity, I will draw enemy attention to myself next to or near a leech and take a death to get his or her butt trounced into a graveyard where they cant soak up HKs at least.
As far as players not following objectives (which there are degrees too), again, the fault lies with the person not following the objectives. In a team game where winning is the primary objective the personal decision to not play objectives or contribute in any meaningful way on purpose is in direct conflict with being the team player you agreed to be when you hit queue and join.
I dont care if you play with no add ons. Im fine with clickers. Im fine with under geared players. Im fine with a couple of level 50 somethings in my AVs. Im fine with people who ignore called incomings to chase down easy kills. Im fine with people who are out of their depth but do the best they can.
Im not fine with defending IWB with 4 other people who dont move their characters for 10 minutes when Im sapped in front of the flag, call it, and it gets back capped by a lone rogue with 20 seconds on it as 5 people sit in the cave for the whole game and a mounted R13 warrior and two stealthed R13 rogues and a rando druid sit above a team fights we cant win because its basically 35 vs 15.
At least the RP walking level 51 taurens who walk to FW to get one shot is somewhat amusing to witness.
Im sure their bot owners are glad you’re on their side and the AFKers really care about your glowing endorsement of their playstyle.
I’ll repeat myself, once again…
Who’s going to make that determination, that someone isn’t a team player?
You can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone fighting on the road isn’t following objectives.
I can even make the argument that fighting in the road, is working towards completing an objective…
So you wrote a whole dossier to not say anything nor answer my simple questions…
And then…
You wonder why I would rather group with them in my BGs than with people like you.
Do us both a favor and exit yourself from my premise if you ever get me in a BG.
Or at the very least, practice what you just preached in your giant dossier and shut your trap if you see me fighting on the road.
The game. Its there for people who want to compete against other people with their characters. There’s wpvp and then there are these things called battlegrounds which comes in three varieties and purposefully invites people to compete on maps with conditions that determine the winner which is determined by which team plays better. Playing better involves winning pvp team fights over objectives. You win or you lose, that’s it.
If the game rewards and acknowledges the victorious team, the better team, that means another was not as good and lost. Why did they lose? There’s too much to unpack there and it doesn’t matter anyway. The only thing that matters when talking BGs is winning and losing, honor farmers aside. That’s it. As long as that exists you got no argument.
Ill be the first guy to tell you most games are not competitive, scintillating, hot wasabi battleground pvp action that stirs the heart. Damn near half of the games I play are pretty much lost causes that have to be tolerated or endured. Some are decent, some are pretty good and then there’s the rare game that is so well played by both teams you remember it for months afterwards.
Bro you got nothing to worry about because there isn’t anyone in this thread or in the game that wants you as a teammate. Condemning people for noting the uselessness of AFK players who are blatantly and openly violating game rules by griefing their teams has got to be dumbest hill to die on so its probably a safe bet you either AFK or play so bad you might as well be.
Wafectus the type of person to aggravate a scorpion and then play victim when he gets stung
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Where in the ToS does it say that I can’t fight in the road?
That determination first has to come from, you, the player, with the decision that you didn’t like what that player was doing.
Forget fighting in the road. Let’s use a clearcut example of the rules; an obvious botter; so, even still with the botter, you, the player, have to make the determination that you don’t like the person botting and will now use your powers of enforcement to do something about it.
When you decided to do something about someone, whether they were breaking the rules or not, you acted on the authority vested in you, which is granted through the power of reporting and vote-kicking. No different IRL than a civilian deciding to make a citizen’s arrest. The civilian is using powers vested in him to exert and enforce authority.
Why do you think you need to tell me that? I’ve done countless of BGs over a decade. I’ve seen what you are describing.
You’re basically just insulting my intelligence as if I don’t have a clue on what goes on in BGs.
Too bad; cuz we’re going to be stuck with each other. You’ll have to use your reporting/kicking enforcement features if you want to rid me of your BGs…
And I’ve learned my lessons…
No more naughty words…
My reciprocity will now manifest itself in other ways.
I didn’t condemn them for that. I simply raised a reasonable doubt that those perceived to be AFKing/botting may not always be AFKing/botting, but that the enforcement systems used against them also produce collateral damage.
Yeah gumshoes? You cracked the case.
Where did I say road fighting was against the ToS? I just noted you’re not a team player because you chose not to be. You’re not breaking any rules if you play like a mongoloid, you just lose games which someone has to do anyway and you’re content with that outcome based on your lousy decision to road fight. You want to be carried to wins instead of help out. There’s a few in every game. Par for the course.
It doesn’t make me an authoritarian to point out we need at least 3 bases for a certain amount of time and the two people who are afking in the back of our mine cave are hurting our chances. Its just me explaining what everyone already knows.
It doesnt make me an authoritarian to point out the two TF warriors who ignored the lone mage EFC that laughably ran right between them as they sprinted half way across the map to steal my KB was probably not the right play in a 2-2 game when our FC is under zero pressure and is standing on the flag stand.
Botting is against the rules just like afking is. A report feature exists for things just like that. The person botting knows they are breaking the rules and run the risk of getting caught and banned. If that happens because of a player report or Blizz’s own detection software, they have no one to blame but themselves as they were the ones cheating. Its not a case of someone unfairly exercising unjust enforcement powers its a cheater getting busted for not following the rules as they should be.
Rules exist for a reason. Botting and AFKing are against the rules because they are bad for your game and impact real players. People choose to break the rules, therefore they alone assume the responsibility of their actions. Case closed. People reporting rule breakers is not an act of authority. If anything, its more like a duty.
Im telling you that because the idea is for two teams to compete with one another for a victory and that doesn’t change because people got other ideas and those are made manifest. Since its Win or Lose someone has to outplay someone else and as long as that’s the case how you play the BG matters. If you play antithetical to the team goals set by the game and competitive pvp on purpose for self centered reasons its okay for someone to point it out seeing as you made the decision play that way.
As for your insulting your intelligence you’re bulletproof as there isn’t anything there for me to insult.
I check rosters and I havent seen you in a game in forever and before that it wasnt all that often. If and when I see your name again Ill know the team is down at least one player.
I dont need to lift a finger. You’re doing all the heavy lifting with your sympathizing with cheaters and deadbeats.
You must know me well to make those kinds of statements in which I actually play that way.
What team goals set by the game? The team decided that I wasn’t allowed to fight on the road?
You see how I have to try and interpret the vagueness of what you say.? That’s called intellectual dishonesty.
Are you going to make me wait for another giant dossier now just to clarify what you tried to say?
And just like in real life, police can get called by overzealous civilians who misperceived wrongdoing, when there was nothing wrong at all.
For the record, I don’t engage in that behavior, but will gladly do it to spite you if I ever got you on my team…
May as well just report me on sight.
Let me make it easy for you should it ever come to pass again…
I feel nothing but pure disdain for you… who you are… what you stand for… and I will never treat you as a teammate, ever.
You may as well be an alliance spy if you’re ever on my team.
Did you ever step foot inside WSG during this time? I was running premades with 7 hunters and 3 priest gy camping every single game. It was not good pvp in any shape or form.
Go figure. I’m convinced you’re drunk 24/7 at this point. You can’t keep anything you say straight.
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Spot on observation, thanks for the laugh.
Delvin I have made plenty of points which you have yet to address
Why is that?
You have ignored literally every single post I’ve replied to you with
So this is the, what, 700th “fresh new idea” for Classic+?
People really need to give up this dream that Blizzard actually cares to make any changes to an old version of WoW to make it an entirely new experience. You’re all basically asking them to develop an entirely new game at this point, and with their current track record are you sure you can trust them to make it according to your expectations?
That’s my argument, yep.
It isn’t going to be good, but I’m sure there will be fun parts about it.
I get the feeling it will be SoD2, when all they really need is 3 new “Fresh” realms, one for each version of WoW classic, and keep the Fresh Era BG’s segrigated until AQ’ gates open.
Any thoughts on putting arena/rbg in vanilla are delusional. Please stop it and let this post die.
Yes, I ran premades. And my team was the premade fighting every game to the bitter end and not surrendering after losing the first team fight.
7 hunters is trash. You want boomies, mage, rogue, a warrior frontliner. There was a couple different comp variations you could do. Priest was unfortunately the only optimal healer tho and had to be stacked, rdruid could be OK if they were very skilled but it was safer to always just take another priest unless you knew the druid and could vouch for them.
Far superior to 1 shot fiesta of phase 2. You actually had to line up CC and burst windows to get kills, and generally just play with strategy and counterplay. This all went out the window without damage output being kept under control.
It want off the rails before anyone even reached level 25 with runes, then when blizzard gave everyone gear that in many cases was even powerful for a 60 character in Era… It was compounded by even worse game design of the further added runes and later abilities.
The reason resilience got added was simply because they failed at class design and made the gear literal orders of magnitude too powerful.
Furthermore you’re here trying to sell Classic+ as some kinda “SoD was good” fairytale when it was bad by design on launch day. Resilience was added in P1 because blizzard failed; not because it is a Good design.
A good game does not need exclusionary stats that exclude new players from participating in content they haven’t done before (resilience on gear). Even worse is cooked in resilience or PVP values on spells because First cooked in resilience doesn’t correct overturned classes, punishes under tuned classes, makes healing by default too powerful and boring, and PvP specific tuning is confusing to new PvP’rs or PvE players who want to explore PvP but now need to learn how their class functions under fully different tuning.
This is but the tip of the iceberg of why resilience is a trash design, why PvP specific tuning is bad, and why tuning each “spec” to perform at near peer performance levels in raid or M+ is the stupides thing ever considered in MMO design.
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I think trying to talk to the person who meets everyone with ‘‘that’s not a coherent argument I win’’ isn’t going to go well. But it is nice to see thoughts and discussions around classic pvp regardless.
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