Classic is nerfed on beta

They specifically said that was an intentional decision to change the content, in the Dev interviews.

It’s basically the only change of Vanilla to Vanilla that they’ve announced so far.

That’s the point I was making; it’s not a “PURE” version like some people make believe.

It’s a franken patch regardless of peoples opinion at this point.

The door is open for more Vanilla era “Franken patch” objective choice.

If I’m remembering right what they have said is that they have found bits and pieces of other patch data, but nothing complete other than 1.12. It had something to do with how they were patching the game early on.

It’s entirely possible they were backing it up every patch, but then felt no need to keep things from more than one or two patches back so at that point they would just overwrite the early stuff with the new. I know with SOE and SWG for example they definitely weren’t backing every single thing up. I’ve read Dev interviews from back then that they were more or less flying by the seat of their pants and didn’t really consider ever needing something from that far back.

My guess would be the reason they still have the mount change is that it was a relatively late change ( I can remember it and I didn’t start until AQ was out ), so it would more or less line up with that idea that they would keep a patch or two, but then get rid of anything older.

what are you even talking about?

This is AV from 1.12 (which been a thing since 1.8), from vanilla. and the reason why it was changed in the first place was due to player complaints >.> smh

It was an unbalanced battleground, the winner of the battleground was guaranteed to whoever turtled and rushed the graveyard (usually horde since their starting point/base was significantly closer), and complaints over the excessive pve parts.

Don’t you remember the player boycott of AV?

Several changes were made in patch 1.8 to improve AV’s balance. Horde and Alliance numbers will be kept as balanced as possible — if there are 27 players on Horde side and 25 Alliance, and 10 people in the Horde queue but only 3 in the Alliance queue, all 3 Alliance will be added while only 1 Horde will, giving each side 28 players. Similarly, AV will begin as soon as both factions have 20 players and will then keep adding more players at a balanced rate until the 40 maximum per side is reached.

Terrain chances were made to keep Alliance players from just jumping over the wall at the Horde base and skipping defenders to rush the graveyard — and for other reasons, but that one was a big one — and a portcullis was added to the end of both faction start tunnels to keep players from slipping into the battleground ahead of the start and making progress up the BG towards the enemy general while the other faction couldn’t stop them.

Also, a lot of NPC guards were removed. In the early days of AV, people often complained that it felt less like PVP and more like a PVE experience — in many ways, Alterac Valley was a really good blueprint for a Warfront in those days. By cutting back on NPCs, AV became a match of wits — did your faction commit some players to defense of your home base and general, or did you go all out zerg rush on your opposing general and hope to gain control of the enemy base before the other faction could do the same to yours?

I always find it moronic that players today attempt to complain or whine about changes, when those chases were made back during vanilla (so is the real vanilla experience) and were a direct result of real vanilla player requests/complaints at the time.

The media for backup is really really really cheap (compared to the cost of loss) for a very good reason.

Consider a moment that every single data center just about ever keeps double backups; one copy on site and one copy off site.

Why would they if trying to cut costs recycle old backup copies when it costs more for the shipping on return mail or the courier service? (that’s just for the off site copy.)

“Complete” could mean quite a few different things regarding how WoW’s server old structure works, and the reality is more than likely the choice word of “complete” more or less means “Accessible” in an easy way.

In other words they don’t need to get on E-bay and buy hardware for a media type that you can’t buy new gear for.

You keep trying to bring it up as a cost thing, I don’t think it had anything to do with cost. I think more than likely they just didn’t see the need to keep several patches back of data at the time, because as they’ve said the were looking forward not backwards.

I know people find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t just keep everything, but when you read about how busy they were early on it doesn’t shock me at all that they wouldn’t really care if they had it or not, they had zero intentions of ever needing to go back to 1.3 when they were on 1.8.

Hi El! Haven’t you seen in the AV threads that much lately, hope all’s well. :slight_smile:

Also, while I’m here:
1.11’s AV lasted 169 days.
1.8’s AV lasted 169 days.

So 30.95% of AV’s lifespan each. However, AV had guards and NPCs for 377 days, which was 69.05% of Vanilla’s lifespan, making 1.8 the longest running / most stable version of AV that was put out that also kept closest to the original design of AV. Additionally, compared to 1.11, 1.10’s AV changes were almost trivial (being that player drops were removed and killing players directly gave rep, and Korrak was removed), there’s an interesting case to be made for folding 1.10’s AV into 1.8’s, which would put 1.8’s version of AV at 252 days and put it at 46.15% of Vanilla AV’s lifespan.

It’s interesting, because the primary break points are always listed as 1.5, 1.8, and 1.11.

This statement is not true.

If it had to do with “time” and they were busy why would they ship copies off site and then back on site?

In that situation about time you would simply do like every other data center ever and just make backups and ship the second copy off site like is standard.

That’s if you care about speed and efficiency.

I can see on-site copies possibly getting recycled, but even that’s kinda far fetched given that Blizzard is not poor, never has been and is unlikely to be in the near future.

As for Speed, it’s faster to just use new reliable media rather than risk it by over writing old…

Ain’t no body got time for that!

Tell that to 1.7 AV when it eventually makes it live; this is not a matter of IF but a matter of when.

snerk :man_facepalming:

They said the same thing about Classic WoW 5 years ago.

And these two things are not the same. One was a concerted effort with hundreds of thousands of people. The other is an ongoing debate between two groups of maybe 100 people on either side.

Expecting that throwing a tantrum once worked, so it will always work, is being a brat.

There are very large number of people that would prefer the original AV.

There are a very small number of people who don’t mind 1.12 AV because it’s akin to Modern AV.

Aside from “LOUD ANGRY VOICES” you have no proof of that. People who are getting 1.12 and don’t care to argue with you, are invisible.


You’re the one that’s visibly offended by 1.5 AV, why not formulate a coherent argument for why 1.12 AV is superior in your opinion?

I will be happy either way regardless of what version we get because I can make my own fun.

However given the choice I would select 1.5 Era AV because it’s a better map. (my opinion)

You so far have not stated why you feel 1.12 AV is superior.

I have in numerous threads illustrated why I feel early AV is vastly superior and a very large number of people agree with me.

So far, the number of people who think 1.12 AV is acceptable are either private server kids who never played AV before 1.12, Honor grinders who hated the map because of it’s PVE, or people who never played Classic WoW and just don’t know what they’re missing.

While the AV enthusiast like me and there are a lot of us; really really really enjoyed original AV and there are a very large number of us.

If you want high speed PVP only, there are Two entire BG’s built for that; WSG and AB.

If you want a summery of Vanilla WoW there was 1.5 AV; the greatest objective based PVP map of all time before it was nerfed to death.

No, I’m really not. 1.12 is what we’re getting, because except for one specific and intended decision which was easy to change, that’s what they have.

I’ve repeatedly said it would be fun to have 1.5 AV as a “PVP Weekend” thing, but they would have to rebuild it, since they don’t have the original database backups.

Actually the majority of 1.5 lovers seem to be Private Server players where the servers rolled through a recreation of all patches. Those who remember Vanilla, remember why it was changed.

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That’s not an argument for 1.12 AV, you’re dodging.

I don’t need an argument for 1.12. Because its the status quo. If I do nothing besides shoot down your claims, we get 1.12.

You have to have a compelling argument to spend developer resources to rebuild 1.5. As yet, no-one has given that.

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Clearly you’re not in favor of 1.5 AV, regardless of your past statement.