Classic Era PVP System Changes

You can do 100k honor in a free day of play rather casually. 100K a week under the present system would likely get you to R10 without a problem.

I normally farm a lot more, but its not horrible like you imagine once you have a decent group to play with.

At an efficient 15k honor per hour - which is really only achievable by a full premade popping consumables on cooldown and calling for instant losses against other premades - 100K honor per day would be just under 7 hours per day.

So casual!

100K a week will not even get you close to rank 10 on Whitemane atm.

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Yeah - you’d want to be hitting somewhere around 200k or so. I do wonder with these pvp changes what might be the most likely change blizzard would lean towards. I suspect it would be the currency system. Just playing devils advocate, haha. I wouldn’t mind that to be honest.

On rank characters we typically don’t use consumes unless its another premade and that is not as common as you think. Generally only the FC uses FAP, and a couple of guys use nades, but really most PvP’rs and Raiders use nades / explosives like sappers so that isnt some crazy thing.

I am only guessing as to what the minimum honor per week is required to hit R10, but maybe that is not enough

Either way its not hard

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If you think 100K honor in a single day is something that you can “casually” get, then idk what to tell you.

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These people have a skewed vision of reality. I am wondering at this point though whether to bother putting any time into r10 on my fresh 60. In my mind the “rank reset” may be a signal to not bother ranking as the coming system will make it a completely different experience…

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Right now would likely be a bad time to rank because we dont know when reset happens thanks to zero info from blizzard other than it is happening with some kind of update.

This character is R7 just playing a few days a week. Most of my play is on my new paladin. I have only been PvP’n on this guy for 3 weeks. Not certain why the avarar does not update; but he is on WM cluster.

The most honor farmed was AV weekend helping the group and did 125K in an afternoon.

Nice 120k honor in an afternoon, you only need like 400-500k more to hit what honor cap was on some classic servers. You’re just wrong about it not being hard.

Hitting rank 12 on the classic server I was on took 400,000 (so rank 10 was probably like 300k) a week it was one of the easier servers. The alliance premades got an average of like 20,000 an hour. That’s twenty hours a week to hit the bracket you need. Twenty hours a week. This is also with people doing pool parties to artificially control stuff and every pvp player on the server agreeing to bracket caps which someone had to figure out.

Added some new ideas to the original post from the thread.

  • Increase AV difficulty (too easy with Naxx-geared players and AV only was the PVP meta in SoM due to high honor relative to other BGs)
  • Increase honor and rep to non-AV BGs to increase participation
  • Bring back City Protector title
  • Always show highest rank achieved
  • Cap group queues at 5, but see below
  • Full 10/15 man premades only fight other full premades but for increased more rep and maybe double tokens?

Added new ideas in italics.

4 modes of Q’s

Group size 1-3 (both rated and non rated)
Group size Full BG Q (both rated and non rated)

Non rated BG could provide a grind system to gear rewards with the blue sets being very cheap and easy to get, and the epics taking weeks per item. Perhaps a system of points that requires wins (no losses) And as such only winning can award points to buy the loot. This way “let them win” for free points and associated bots will not be as flagrant.

Both brackets could have RBG mode as the way to get titles and Epic PvP set. Epic set items could unlock at R3 (gloves / boots) R5 (pants and chest) R7 (Shoulders and Helm) R9 (Weapons and Mount) R11 Tabard and new battle standard) R13 (Title and upgraded Battle standard)

The conspiracy that rank gear is a “problem” is just that. Zero classes wear ranking gear in pve settings, the only exception is warrior r13 set. For everyone else it’s just the r14 weapons. And honestly staff of shadow flame is better for pve than a r14 combo until femur for like a warlock. Pvp gear is only for high stamina

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in SoM having the pvp gear available too early removed a lot of the incentive to run lvl 60 dungeons :expressionless:

For DPS warriors, the blue PVP head/shoulders are the BiS rares for those slots due to the +40 AP set bonus. Truestrike Shoulders are arguably better based on your hit rating, but you lose 50 AP from stats and set bonus. So, to get beyond those BiS, you need luck with raid drops or a ton of gold to buy Lionheart.

Myself and every warrior in my guild had blue 2-piece helm/shoulders until it was replaced by Lionheart/DTP or AQ set.

There is a reason why everyone was grinding honor when the PVP system was live at SoM launch, which hurt dungeon running.

I would be ok with honor gains being put off till like 3 weeks or a month after release of SoM2.

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With SoM ranking speeds: 0 players can get rank 10 helm and shoulders for the first 3 weeks.

After that: 3.5% of players each week can get rank 10 helm and shoulders. This assumes that brackets are perfectly efficient and no one on the server pushes past rank 10 (lmao). In reality, most of the people who hit rank 10 will at least attempt to push for higher ranks, which means 3.5% of new players will get rank 10 every ~3-4 weeks, after each batch of rankers finish getting whatever rank they wanted and then drop out of the pool.

There is no limit on the number of people who can get the Heroism set each week because dungeons are instanced. Looting your Heroism set does not lock someone else out of getting their Heroism set. In addition, there are more useful Heroism pieces (6 + all other items that come from dungeon drops, including HoJ and gold and materials) than blue PvP items (just helm and shoulders).

It’s impossible for ranking to hurt dungeons. At least 96.5% of players can not get rank 10 each week. That’s just how ranking works - you are ranked against the other players on your server. For those 96.5% you can run dungeons instead, until it is your turn to push for rank 10.

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Proof you have zero idea what you’re talking about

Despitebeing - did not play SoM

Axewipe - played SoM

I wonder if I might know some things about SoM that you don’t :thinking:

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I don’t mind honor accruing

I played Classic and SoM. I don’t know what server you were on, but in SoM basically everyone was ranking in AV 24/7 instead of doing dungeons.

In a current Era server, getting Heroism isn’t too hard to get, especially if you pay for a carry. The blue/heroism debate is more about appropriate to fresh servers.

Heroism being available at launch ignores the fact that Heroism is out of reach for 99% of the player base until 3-6 months into a fresh server. You need to be 60 to grind the blue pieces and other like-minded 60s who also won’t be rolling on your gear. Once you get the blue pieces, you need both gold and a decent group to upgrade your items. You need at least 200 raw gold right a the start, which is tough when people are saving for epic mounts. That doesn’t even take into account all the crazy mats and rep you need to grind, which is even harder on a PVP server.

There is a reason hardly anyone had Heroism, other than twinks, in SoM. It is expensive and a pain that relies on luck as opposed to the deterministic PVP rank gear.

Moreover, being in the top 3.5% of the PVPers is actually not that bad especially early in a fresh server since so many people are PVPing, including low-levels from 10-59 that are just doing a couple BGs a week.

If 3000 people are PVPing across all level brackets, that’s 100 level 60s per week eligible to get R10. If the 60s are doing a pool party, that number is boosted even more.

R10 is easy. It’s R11 where it really starts to drag.

Your brainlet claim:

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Just objectively wrong. I was in two guilds in SoM - one of which had a rank 14 main tank - and more players had the dungeon set in both guilds than PvP gear.

“Everyone” on a server can not get PvP gear. That’s literally how the system is designed. It’s called ranking because you are ranked against other players. You can not get the gear unless you are above a certain percentage.

For rank 10, that percentage is the top 3.5% of the server. The gear is much rarer than guides and the forums would like you to believe.

If it takes someone 6 months to collect the entire Heroism set, then rank 10 is literally unobtainable for them. They do not play the game more than 96.5% of the server’s population and therefore can not get the highest ranks.