The tournament exposed how awful it was, the winning team didn’t even play the game (which is how all “epic” WSGers play) and then the enemy team complained and cried until they got DQ due to a bug on Blizzard end lol.
What “winning team” dude, what do you even mean by that?
You keep talking about ty skeram, which got disqualified on the second weekend. The winning team was vampire clan. Who actually played the battleground
You are speaking from a place of pure emotion and its extremely obvious. Emotional crying is not “an argument” the fact is the team you are referring to roof camping didnt “win”, so you saying “they won” when they clearly didnt which can be seen statistically. You saying otherwise doesnt change a thing
If you have to cry and complain to get the team that beat you DQ’ed for a bug that Blizzard already confirmed was okay in the tournement then you didn’t really win.
It just showed how awful the mode was, which is why… wow… surprise, they never had another WSG tournament ever again.
The team had world buffs, which are against the ruleset. That is a fact, your statement is an opinion
Also stop trying to derail this thread. This thread is about buffing AB to be the new meta for all PvP’ers on Era.
Blizzard is never going to buff AB to force one battleground to be the meta
You are the original thread derailer. If you didn’t care about wsg you wouldnt even be posting here. But since you got roflstomped the entirety of classic, now its a personal vendetta for you
You are leaving out the fact that it was a bug on the pet that you couldn’t get rid of the world buff. Which btw was ALLOWED earlier in the tournament by an admin. My friend played on one of the teams that lost early on but they had the exact same bug and were told it was okay to continue their matches.
Who was your friend and what team
Stop trying to doxx me and stop derailing this thread.
Thats what I thought. “your friend” doesnt exist
Stop projecting brother, it is not a good look.
So you arguments to defend the terrain exploits are:
- It’s fun…
Is it fun because it’s actually competitive, or fun because “people who know” get an extreme advantage over “people who don’t know”?
- Blizzard as a company is too stupid and/or lazy to actually moderate or enforce rules in their game beyond what an automation can do, even in their own tournaments, and this somehow justifies the usage of the behavior.
Is gold buying acceptable? Boosting? Botting? What about removing the flag from the map? Other minor quasi safespots like top of the cart vs melee hordeside gy? Perhaps Flyhacking? Blizz rarely actually moderate their game in general, and spending developer resources remapping the WSG instance sounds like the exact kind of thing Actiblizz would rather lose customers over than spend money fixing. Does the lack of moderation really make the actions acceptable if not justified? (rhetorical question btw)
- The best argument you made a case for is this one… It opens up variety regarding map control, since it forces a team to defend the entire map, instead of just 2/3rds of it.
Counterpoint would be, spending 3 weeks recently on the ptr for this patch doing nothing but wsg, I think I can count on one hand the number of times the druid FC DIDN’T run the flag gy side. Every. Single. Time. without fail, the druid went to the GY side, straight to the jump, then straight to ToT (or roof then ToT). This is in direct contradiction to your claim. We know where they are going, they are going straight to the exploits, and they’re doing it because of the advantage those exploits give them against players who don’t know better (the horde one actually being more egregious than the alliance one, because (AFAIK) you actually need to be moving above normal unmounted run speed to even make the jump). And if it was intended to be able to traverse that way, why would the alliance jump be literally next to the gy, while the horde one is along the east wall? Why wouldn’t they just install a second ramp on that side?
Now we can argue the meta implications of organized team v team play, where you say it would be impossible to get a flag carrier across because you can 10sapper the EFC, but couldn’t the opposing team also just 10sapper your FC? Don’t sappers already have a cooldown? The real differential I see from my experience in premade vs premade is that most games end up letting their druid and maybe a token body or two exploit every terrain they could while the others peel/heal and just kite out the attacking team while sending as many people as possible on offense. You argue it would be too easy to dumpster a FC without those terrain exploits, but I’d actually argue the opposite… the FC’s being much more vulnerable would imo create a much more dynamic meta that necessitates more thought into a defensive unit than “hunter trap banana” and LESS players on offense, thus dramatically inreasing the risk/reward of actual strategy
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Finally some more high IQ replies to this thread. Thank you.
- It’s fun because it is competitive. You’ll know this if you practice the battleground with a group of friends intent on being good at it.
The jumps allow “under dog” premades to actually beat top tier premades, as their plays become unpredictable. Remove the jumps, and non top tier premades will have even worse of a time than they do now.
- they removed some jumps in tbc, but not classic - indicating they have no desire do to so. The PTR again had all the jumps in. Blizzard is not removing them indicating they see no problem. Wether you like that or not does not matter
“is gold buying acceptable?” straw man. stick the the subject at hand. Jumps
Imagine playing football and all you can do every play is run the ball, not pass it. How far do you think you’re going to get like that>?
- This is the biggest point of all. Jumps make your teams positioning EVEN MORE important than if the jumps werent in. And as I stated before, if you remove the jumps there would never be any competition or chance for lesser teams ever, because the game now becomes entirely predictable and al
l we have to do is sapper down the entire team and EFC the moment they leave our base or come to enter theirs, because there is no way to juke.
Your counterpoint is purely semantics. If you remove the jumps and the enemy team can counter sapper we will just pop GFPPS. The mages on my team would never allow 10 of them to bunch up together and rush us. That’s the mages job in wsg
The opposing team also would not be allowed to have 10 together, as good warsong mage players can peel half the enemy team by themselves, rogues as well
Your semantics I understand and take into account, but these are also made up scenarios that just are not going to be a consistent occurence. What IS going to be a consistent occurence is the druid going 1 path every game. FCs are plenty vulnerable with jumps in.
At most all I see this change to jumps doing is making lesser teams resort to a deathball strategy and try to pick and cap as 10, but that isn’t going to work vs a good team who can just have their mages/rogue split the team indefinitely to be picked off by a top tier team, who again will have more numbers due to not needing to control map
You’re arguing football with half the playbook is better and more competitive. It simply isnt. No matter how you flip it, limiting a map control based bg to need less of the map ruins it
Stop supporting gold buying and exploiting. It is against the ToS.
You keep listing all the reasons the game mode is dead as some positive. If people actually liked it then it wouldn’t be dead. If it wasn’t dead this thread wouldn’t exist. You will never convince anyone beyond an extremely small minority that the best form of PvP is spam running around circles exploiting up walls for 30 minutes at a time.
If you actually cared about people playing WSG then you should be bending over backwards to get all the exploits fixed, consumes greatly limited in BGs, time limits added, etc.
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The implication being that we should remotely care, let alone cater directly to organized teams…
A dubious and self serving assertion.
No, the subject was whether breaking the TOS was allowed because it wasn’t being enforced. That was YOUR argument. Not mine.
And what was stopping the first team from popping GFPP to counter your sapper rush? Also how many consumes are you degens going to waste on a single game?? You’re already talking about gfpp, sapper, and FAP/LIP more or less on cd… presumably while flasked, and flash bombs for the druid. Exactly where do you get the gold to drop 50g in consumables every game? Most classes farm at a 50-100g/hour rate, barring other degenerate practices like boosting or gdkp. Are you actually farming for ~1h per every 2 hours of BG time?
Did they also add rated battle grounds to vanilla classic? No? So your assertions that the only aspect of wsg that matters is how the top premade meta happens in wsg is somewhat superfluous then.
Now bear with me for a moment, and put yourself in to the shoes of a complete noob, who queus WSG for the first time. They’ve never seen these jumps before. They zone in, see a weird cat shaped animal running with the flag, and they know enough to know they need to kill it. It then proceeds to run straight up a vertical wall the noob cannot run up, and then jump straight through a solid fence the player couldn’t jump through (assuming the player ever even gets to that level)… Is that noob more likely to think that 1) “Wow that guy must be super skilled” or 2) “Wow that guy is cheating and no one seems to care. This is bull*, screw this game.”
Your mentality that cheating is ok, because blizzard is too stupid or lazy to ban for it, while being simultaneously completely ignorant of the perspectives from any player that doesn’t fit into your super super super niche high end wow vanilla rbg mindset is a pretty perfect example of why this game, and pvp generally speaking are dying out. It’s an entirely selfish, and ultimately self defeating mindset.
But hey, by your own admission it does allow less talented premades to out compete/exploit more talented ones, so there’s that (which by the way, isn’t a good thing).
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Put a timer (30m-1hr) on wsg and boom people will enjoy it, being locked into hr(s) long games just cause one druid has Nike’s on gets old fast
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-You don’t have to care bro. All I am saying is removing jumps is going to do absolutely nothing for pugs, bad premades, mid tier premades, etc.Nothing will change and the crying will continue. the only thing changed is now all movement is predictable.
-Oh well. The jumps are still in 5 years later. Beating a dead horse
-First team popping gfpp* this was a semantics argument on your part I responded with. Your failure is not understanding no enemy team is going to approach mine with more players than us trying to cross mid. Semantics aren’t going to turn the tide of an argument as they are inconsistent occurences.
-On Som i made 60-75g a piece for rocket boots that cost me 4g to make. Not everyone buys gold and this is a deflection on your part and doesn’t even matter concerning the subject at hand. Teams who want to win will be using everything at their disposal including going so far as to farm tidal charms and magic dust as horde. PvP is the end game for dedicated pvpers, how is spending gold on a BG any different than on a raid?
-RBGs have nothing to do with jumps. You’re straw manning again. Present an argument without a logical fallacy to be taken seriously
—Now bear with me for a moment, and put yourself in to the shoes of a complete noob, who queus WSG for the first time. They’ve never seen these jumps before. They zone in, see a weird cat shaped animal running with the flag, and they know enough to know they need to kill it. It then proceeds to run straight up a vertical wall the noob cannot run up, and then jump straight through a solid fence the player couldn’t jump through (assuming the player ever even gets to that level)… Is that noob more likely to think that 1) “Wow that guy must be super skilled” or 2) “Wow that guy is cheating and no one seems to care. This is bull*, screw this game.”—
I was this guy years ago. I got better and was taught by better people. Just like everyone else had to do. Ihad the benefit of years of games on private servers though
—Your mentality that cheating is ok, because blizzard is too stupid or lazy to ban for it, while being simultaneously completely ignorant of the perspectives from any player that doesn’t fit into your super super super niche high end wow vanilla rbg mindset is a pretty perfect example of why this game, and pvp generally speaking are dying out. It’s an entirely selfish, and ultimately self defeating mindset.—
This is simply your opinion and is discarded. What isn’t an opinion is the fact that the jumps are in game 5 years later, and 10 years former.
PvP isnt dying out, the PTR was absolutely bangin up until the honor changes released. There was an upwards of 30 wsg games going on PTR. like a few ABs, and zero AVs
Less talented premades who actually lvoe the game end up getting better and even climbing to the top. I have seen this myself.
here is a pretty short and simple wsg guide. Most players don’t even know these exist. Once players understand their role in the bg and where they should be and where, is the reason you occasionally see pugs beating premades.Cause the pugs had players who know what theyre doing
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First you present a single argument for your defense of cheating in game beyond “blizzard doesn’t ban for it and it gives me an advantage”
You’ve said a lot of words to say absolutely nothing useful on the topic…
Cheating for an advantage, because blizzard doesn’t ban for it IS THE TOPIC. This shouldn’t be that hard to understand.
I’d add that your claims to making gold in SoM strain credibility, let alone selling boots at a rate that would sustain a ~50gph consumable usage pattern. While not entirely impossible, particularly with early SoM being largely a pvp to pve meta and thus creating bigger demand on boots, it seems exceedingly unlikely.
I’d strongly dispute that… pugs are where removing jumps and other terrain exploits would see fairly astronomical benefits.
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