Class Tuning?

[Molecular-emerald-dream]

Shoot I agree with you, I’m not opposed to number changes. I just really want QoL more than anything, which we have to wait for.

[Jox-turalyon (Jox)]

@Linccstyle-sargeras

Maybe time to update us now that the race ended?

My brother in Christ I feel absolutely the same way.

There won’t be, however. I honestly can’t explain the product decisions this company makes. You’d think after all this free pub from the world 1st race, the launch of the expansion, etc., we’d see a “state of the game” update from Ion or someone else but my expectations are so low based on… the 20 year history of this game.

[Beardflex-benediction]

He mentioned all of these in the post you are responding to.

Are there updates here? Are we going to fix the massive discrepancies not only impacting fury, but also impacting rogues, druid DPS (and their healing, jesus), spriest, WW etc?

[Broxxus-stormrage]

@Aliama-moon-guard

I believe the issue lies in ‘Blizzard just has zero idea what to do with classes’. What classes could and should have been which would have made balancing so much easier is that ‘pure dps’ classes brought high damage in different methods and ‘non pure’ brought much desired utility.

Now that several classes have battle reses, bloodlusts, raid buffs, and decurses/dispells/purifies, we have a balancing mess on our hands. When certain classes can fill the role entirely of another with far more efficient healing/dps/tanking, there’s zero reason to bring the lesser version of it.

Now that classes have it all… The solution is to balance the game. If every class does the same thing as you explained… Then every class should be plus -5% damage of each other. Why am I doing 20% less damage than an augmentation evoker? Why is my class dealing less dmg than a support class? I’ve been discussing class balance for days on these Forums. And blizzard has taken a vow of silence. Explain decision-making process behind why balance decision are made. We’re talking about fury warrior here, but classes other than fury have low class representation, and low dmg simultaneously.

[Aliama-moon-guard]

@Molecular-emerald-dream

Shoot I agree with you, I’m not opposed to number changes. I just really want QoL more than anything, which we have to wait for.

Agreed! Our button bloat is insane right now and our juggling act is more punishing for dropping a ball than most other classes as well. Our feint coming off GCD soon is wonderful, our SnD becoming passive is also good, but I fear that the changes to Thistle Tea is going to be a huge nerf with it auto triggering requiring us to keep a VERY close eye on our energy to not have it trigger at poor times to maximize our already shoty burst window mechanics.

I would say that we need an entire rework at this point as our class still feels like it’s stuck in 2010. No other class is suffering from resource management like we are and no other class is having to flat out stop hitting all abilities for several moments to pool resources/line windows. Some could make the argument that rogues have always been this way, but my rebuttal is ‘so was every class’ until recently.

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@Broxxus-stormrage

Now that classes have it all… The solution is to balance the game. If every class does the same thing as you explained… Then every class should be plus -5% damage of each other. Why am I doing 20% less damage than an augmentation evoker? Why is my class dealing less dmg than a support class? I’ve been discussing class balance for days on these Forums. And blizzard has taken a vow of silence. Explain decision-making process behind why balance decision are made. We’re talking about fury warrior here, but classes other than fury have low class representation, and low dmg simultaneously.

Because every class still can’t which is why it’s a nightmare. Rogues can’t tank, Warlocks can’t heal, Mages can’t battle res, etc. Take ret which is a better rogue and every way (minus assassination’s iron wire) plus the ability to battle res, plus the ability to flip class specs to heal/tank, plus can buy invis pots to stealth past things in m+. How is it fair that they do (potentially) only 5% less dps than a rogue when they’re hand over fist better? Why on earth still take a rogue over them?

I know that you’re using hyperbole when saying you’re doing less damage than an aug evoker, let alone 20% less, because if you really are struggling that hard it’s not the class that’s the issue here. But I digress, what I’m saying is that there’s no ‘good way’ for Blizz to balance anymore as they’ve worked themselves into a corner where everyone loses from time to time.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Beardflex-benediction

He mentioned all of these in the post you are responding to.

The point is he’s picking and choosing because “his” class is getting nerfed overall. I didn’t see him in the other threads that involved other classes getting nerfed.

[Linccstyle-sargeras]

Why would I go participate in other class areas I don’t actively play?

I have already stated in here it would be great if people from the other classes could jump in and explain their grievances as well. I play warrior hyper-competitively, so I understand warrior, and I know my feelings about the current design issues.

I don’t know yours, and I don’t have infinite life hours to put into learning your classes nuances and everyone elses to make a 70 paragraph post.

You’re free to post your grievances, I mentioned your class/spec, seems like you just have a weird chip on your shoulder.

Also, just because you missed it, I was in several tuning threads the past several weeks saying why our initial nerf was completely fair/deserved, but that I’d like to understand why when arcane/enh get nerfed, they’re compensated at the same time, and why so many other specs are straight up ignored.

[Zitaska-aerie-peak]

@Pridefull-hyjal

dwarf man angry, answer him blizzard

Blizzard better do what dwarf man said or else he’ll cast Demolish.

[Xarrakdell-feathermoon]

Which source for rankings are you using? Wow head still shows fury middle of the pack when i googled

[Linccstyle-sargeras]

Ew Colossus

[Zitaska-aerie-peak]

Shush, I get to pop baddies in the air with Shockwave.

[Linccstyle-sargeras]

Actually that part is pretty cool NGL, too bad demolish feels like dogwater.

[Zitaska-aerie-peak]

Locking you in place only for the tank to move an enemy cancelling the attack feels… really terrible lol.

I can understand not liking it, Slayer just has more to its flow since the commitment aspect isn’t there.

[Bigtoe-whisperwind]

Fury does need help but someone have to be at the button right.

Wish the devs do play their game. Like in FFXIV yoshi P and its devs do play the game and they tested all the raids and their ulimate raid (mythic) to make sure is doable when it is release and bug free. They also kept an eye on class balance. Blizzard? Just release content and hope for the best to be bugged free and do nerf slowly to overtune content.

[Bigtoe-whisperwind]

@Kkash-tichondrius

Nerf Ret Pallies that is all.

leave ret pally out of this. Nerf fury warrior more! How you like that?

[Bigtoe-whisperwind]

@Linccstyle-sargeras

Of course, the point remains this whole “fury is so easy” thing is as stupid as saying BM is.

All classes are easy, all have nuance/skill ceilings, but they’re all just based on comfort and time spent, anyone can learn them if they truly sat down to try and learn it and be good at it within an hour.

An example here is fury is very easy to play at a mediocre level, but not using opportunist for CB, not pooling rage/RB resets appropriately to ensure crit on BB, ensuring enrage never drops due to overspending RBs/not pooling properly etc…

Not hard, but nuanced and requires skill, and there is a skill gap.

None of this is to say fury is hard, it’s merely to point out that the internal bias people have towards their class is merely because they DO understand their classes nuance, and don’t understand the others, so at face value “mine is hard and theirs is easy.” ← this is wrong, and a bias, and a lack of knowledge.

Not really playing healer makes the game 100x harder. You have to do damage, heal dps who got hit by avoidable damage or don’t bother to use their CC, and at the same time, keeping you and the tank alive, while dodge avoidable damage and to use CC. Healers is the most difficult to play in this game.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Linccstyle-sargeras

Why would I go participate in other class areas I don’t actively play?

Because the need of the many > need of the few

[Bigtoe-whisperwind]

@Noidd-illidan

Blizzard has no idea how to tune warrior in general, but fury most definitely. Fury nerfs were for optics and people that don’t understand it’s damage profile. The raid seemed like it was designed for a fury warrior. They don’t buff ST because then it buffs our sustained cleave which is already meh compared to others. We can’t have good sustained cleave bc then we’ll have good ST. So all we get is all our burst baked into our CDs and they keep gutting those. Fury can’t be good at what it is good at and not look ridiculous on WCL stats. That is not a fault of the class but encounter design. I don’t know that they’ll ever let fury be good. The -3% was ridiculous. The scaling changes on PTR right now are ridiculous. We are already being passed up by other classes with similar profiles. Filter Ovinax Boss damage and overall damage. FDK goes from top overall to 2nd boss damage. Fury goes from second overall to bottom boss damage. Please hire someone that plays warrior, or at least understands it.

If you care about how spikey our damage is you could literally move damage from OF into the dot component, or make something tick longer for the same damage. There are so many other options than just nuking us from orbit or crippling our aoe scaling so we get to just be the worst at what we’re supposed to be good at again.

Bliizard need to remove damage from OF and BS and DR but buff their sustain. Or redesign the class coz right now after you use WW or TC their ST ability also cleave 8 targets now(or 5) so a buff to their ST damage will also buff their AoE damage. Reduce the damamge they do from 8 to 5 target isn’t the way to nerf them.

[Broxxus-stormrage]

@Aliama-moon-guard

I know that you’re using hyperbole when saying you’re doing less damage than an aug evoker,

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#boss=2898

Don’t worry, you’re not the only one who doesn’t believe it.

@Aliama-moon-guard

let alone 20% less

So the math from the dps dealt by the bottom, and the top.

@Xarrakdell-feathermoon

Which source for rankings are you using? Wow head still shows fury middle of the pack when i googled

Look at the log. Any ST encounter will show how poorly we’re performing. In overall we’re slightly lower than middle of the pack.

@Bigtoe-whisperwind

Fury does need help but someone have to be at the button right.

Sure, just not by 20 percent.

@Grizzle-eredar

Because the need of the many > need of the few

I was advocating for spriest buffs in another post, pretty sure you were there arguing against that as well.

@Bigtoe-whisperwind

Bliizard need to remove damage from OF and BS and DR but buff their sustain. Or redesign the class coz right now after you use WW or TC their ST ability also cleave 8 targets now(or 5) so a buff to their ST damage will also buff their AoE damage. Reduce the damamge they do from 8 to 5 target isn’t the way to nerf them.

Yeah you’re right, completely agree here.

They made the whole kit centered around pressing blade storm and odyns fury, and then made the adds spawn at 45 second intervals with virtually no health… and then act surprised when fury warrior looked strong.

[Shephaestus-senjin]

Hey - stop that. Paladin needs their 7th rework in 4 seasons before Rogues can be looked at.