Class Tuning Incoming – September 24

Community General Discussion
143

Paladins were essentially nerfed to zero to the points they aren’t even used in 2 or 3s

You don’t even have to do anything outside of reverting some of the previous PvP specific nerfs to make them able to compete. Even by undoing some nerfs they would still

Have 0 mobility. Worst in the game
Have 0 gap closers
Have terrible CC
Still have forbearance which made sense a long time ago but not in todays wow when everyone has immunities

What other classes don’t have a gap closer? Or have worse mobility? Or are prevented from using defensive CD’s back to back like with forbearance

Suggestion:

Buff spender FV by 20% to bring it closer in line to other classes. It hits for essentially 0

Boost all damage by 4% (minor buff)

Have shield be 20% vs 10%. By the time you press it it’s already down

WoG heals for 250k. Which made sense in prev expansion but hasnt scaled to an expansion with having 6-7m health pools. Just complete neglect or oversight. 15% here brings it to 292k hp

Why is plate armor nerfed so much that cloth = as tanky as plate.

The PvP talents are a mess. Some don’t even work at all. They are all very outdated.

145

I don’t care if my class is meta or the strongest…but please, help rDruid a little more than this, lol. Don’t get me wrong, 4% isn’t bad, but I don’t think it’s going to be enough to make the class feel noticeably healthier in some content (looking at you M+).

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146

Buff shadow

147

I say who cares you stole my guild bank?.. I am so tired of all the constant adjustments to the classes. OMG… is this now just A.I. constantly tuning … no human intellect to sort out some kind of balance? It’s all gear level getting… and class tuning every friggen month. Where is my guild bank stuff? that is a huge deal for many!?

148

says the death knight!!!

149

can we just remove evokers from the game already i get so tired of seeing this disgusting weird furrybait DeviantArt race flapping around, seriously makes me want to puke.

2 Likes
150

Balance Druid could really use some help surviving in PvP. Even a small buff to a talent or a baseline stat scaling would work nicely as a start… Then, other aspects such as control could be tuned down accordingly if necessary.

Boomy players did not sign up to play an absolute glass cannon caster subtype (mage), but a hybrid between that and lock, so to speak… We’ve usually had less flow mobility (freecasting) than mage, but more than warlock… and our durability should therefore be also in the middle. Unfortunately, it seems following re/pruning and tunings slowly since WoD, that this vision (and arguably the entirety of class archetype balancing philosophy) has been gradually lost.

I’m sure many would appreciate a more thorough revision of the stats, alongside, ultimately – a reversion of the Dragonflight hybrid healing change (so, stronger but fewer Regrowths as now it takes many, many casts to try and save oneself in a clutch – which isn’t worth it). I’d argue the same for the builder-spender of Balance DPS-wise: IMO in BfA fewer but stronger spenders per AP pool felt MUCH better. I’ve previously described our builder/spender phases as “noodle spamming”, because they feel unrewarding both mechanically and numerically.

Ideally, after all of these changes, I’d take a look at the very core mechanics of the spec. Eclipse is highly cumbersome, esp. in PvP. No other spec takes 3-5 GCDs only to start to attempt to burst a target. Let alone, if we are CC’ed, properly kited etc. all our ramp-up goes to waste, every time. Even after the Mastery change, re-DoTing is basically always required as well after every dispell. NOT that the latter shouldn’t be the case… But, at the very least, I’d buff Dying Stars to be a more rewarding pick.

The 11.0.5 spec talent tree changes are a great start, but there’s still a great deal more to be desired… Also in terms of build and hero talent balancing, and the latters’ optional mechanical diversity and additions to the spec’s behaviour.

TL;DR Balance Druid has issues with ramp-up and survivability esp, in PvP atm.
Suggestions: Buff its constant single-target damage OR burst a little bit,
especially its survivability: durability + recovery (Frenzied Regen still bugged?). Also takes too many GCDs?
Long-term – more talent reworks & eventual 12.0 overhaul would be very welcome (Druid forums as evidence - general sentiment: Eclipse is too clunky and we lack rotational agency). The teams efforts to gradually fix the issues are highly appreciated!

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151

rogue doesnt have a damage problem it has a gameplay bloat/value per click problem

152

Hunter AOE offers up an empty bowl so hungry

P-please blizzard…can we have some more…?

153

Any Boomy player who think the spec is squishy doesn’t know how to play Boomy.

You have a 45 yard instant cast burst rotation and the ability to spam Cyclones defensively without breaking form for a reason, hence why you don’t have access to Survival Instincts; the other specs have to drop form to utilize half the kit unlike you.

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154

I’ve been playing Boomy for over a decade, and so I’m well aware of the spec’s relative strengths and weaknesses (to which I tried to point out with my analysis of ‘archetype theory’, classic rules of thumb e.g. more mobility = less durability, and that all WoD+ un/prunings have been uneven and now betray these concepts). My point is that it feels squishier than even in Dragonflight, and that other specs suddenly have better disruption and recovery, making Boomy feel weak.

You can track the tuning over time, the performance charts, and see the armor and healing reductions for yourself :confused: I’d also refer you to threads I commented on in the PvP and Druid forums, in which players more experienced than myself pointed out the exact same issues (survivability & recovery, damage profile tuning, and clunky ramp-up design)

Boomy of course has to shift into Bear Form to heal itself meaningfully, especially right now. I’m not sure when you’ve last played a Druid, but the scaling of both Frenzied Regen and Renewal is abysmally low atm. Add on top of that the MS effects, disruption, pets and many pseudo-interrupts more specs than ever have now – and you get a scenario in which indeed the Druid has to run and cycle cyclones merely to stay alive. This is 100% a tuning + design issue, a ‘power creep’ that has changed the pacing of the game, and therefore hampered the performance of the spec over time – because it failed to adapt. Do bear in mind we didn’t receive ANY change moving into the expansion, but are only starting to see new talent ideas come the next patch.

Well, better late than never… and slowly rather than not… I guess :slight_smile:

155

Funny that because it currently outscales other heals in the game due to increased health pools in relation to damage.

156

I’m sorry, I just can’t take this claim seriously.
We take approx. (Edit: TESTED: 10-12 casts) 2+ times as many casts as in BfA/SL to deplete our Mana now, and Regrowth barely tickles up our healthpool. As for Frenzied Regen, it has been reported to heal for 6%. That is, SIX Percent of our healthpool in PvP – over 3 seconds!!! :dracthyr_lulmao: This HAS to be a bug, because the tooltip says 20 (which is also a nerf compared to the 24 and 32 prior). Also bear in mind ALL healing is reduced further (by MS effects, dampening, and other deuffs). For the time, the amount of GCDs it takes, and the fact we cannot attack while spam-healing or in Bear Form… there is absolutely no justification for these spells to be so ineffective. If the new design direction is to “gut” our recovery, then our durability needs a MASSIVE buff. And, I mean, a MoP mage shield-level ability baked in, or just more ‘tankiness’.

This is the point of a design direction. It has to be DECIDED upon, then delivered via the appropriate changes (ideally, while the expansion changes are still in testing). Even if it’s not in accordance with the classic archetypes and mechanics of the game… then the radical change has to be justified, and implemented hollistically… not half-way, leaving specs dysfunctional for months at a time :confused:

I’d like to clarify, in case that is for some reason necessary – I’m not asking for the spec to be an immortal, omnipresent, one-shotting deity. On the contrary… I started my initial comment with a disclaimer that I’d be willing to see some aspects nerfed if the ones that makes the spec feel weak atm would be buffed in turn, to make it more wholesome. I just found it crucial to make the point to differentiate between Balance Druid – and Mage, which not only has more mobility of course, but also survivability and recovery (multiple blinks, rewinding, immunity) than Druid atm. It makes no sense for all of those to be nerfed so massively on certain specs and not others. I’m not even arguing that all the design changes need to happen now in the expansion… but even simple bug fixes and tunings would go a long way :slight_smile:

2 Likes
157

@Kaivax, Any news on Brewmaster tuning yet? We are quite a bit behind in comparison to all other tanks.

As an example, our Celestial Brew (45s CD) is on par with a singular Ignore Pain. But Ignore Pain can be cast up to a dozen times per minute.
Our overall mitigation is lackluster.
Our self sustain is practically non existent.
We require nearly double the amount of healing in Raids and nearly triple of healing in M+ content.

Thank you.

2 Likes
158

I dont know if you saw this warrior on a M+ I was watching tank yesterday you would change your tune. Of course he never once used shield block and he was tanking a 7. Poor Paladin was doing all they could to keep him alive.

159

Buffed Shadows dmg twice in 2 weeks.

160

The curse of stagger, you’re the unburstable tank, need draw backs since historically stagger just breaks hard content.

161

Brewmaster Shadowpan feels closest to enh in difficulty and I LOVE that. I love having to make tight decision for big payouts. The windows between Blackoutkick feels amazing and I love that feeling. Getting completely slammed on a tank who is delicately tiptoeing on a knifes edge feels wrong. I’ve got no issues if the punishment for making mistakes is harsh, but the payout for playing correctly needs to bring it into a top 3 spot. Master of Harmony exists for players who need an easier experience, and should be easier to streamline and buff for the remaining brews.

I hear you on the mitigation tools being lackluster in comparison and I want changes there as well. The Monk developers seem to have a different setup in mind vs the meta which i’m sure works for them. Unfortunately, desirability in group content HAS to be considered. Why take a risk on a tank who has to work that much harder than other classes AND requires infinitely more healing? Devs being happy with the class from a design perspective does not properly translate to the class feeling good. With how much damage is unavoidable, either stagger needs to absorb MORE (magic damage needs a look) or cooldowns need to become more readily available.

162

The team at shatville must still be playing frost mage, unholy dk and evoker because clearly they think nothing is wrong.

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163

Drawbacks are fine. Like you said, stagger is extremely difficult to design around. They can leave it like this, but they need to lean into the high skill ceiling and allow brewmasters better tools to mitigate. Ilvl 600 +4-6 keys are terrifying. Any mistake on engagement is death, but its not like you become unkillable deathstrike god after that point either.