The majority? Go ahead and count.
There’s a difference between saying “this is the meta-SPEC to play for this class so I should play it” vs “This is this is the only spec I have to play the role I wanna play with the class I wanna play. But because no one will take me if I play this, I should play an entirely different ROLE.”
The only class I can think that are any sort of similar is priests because they have 2 healing specs and 1 dps spec. If Shadow was in the same boat as ret, I’d also understand if it had received a buff.
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I’m sorry this is 2023. If you think you are being brought to any full clearing raid teams as your preferred spec vs the optimal one I have got news for you about modern gaming.
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The problem is, if that’s the case than ret paladins just wouldn’t exist at all, but they do. People DO take them. They’re not being brought to the sweaty elite tryhard runs, but they do get raid spots, you just don’t stack them.
You’re right. We should all just reroll to the viable classes instead of playing what we want to play just to show people how poorly balanced classic WOTLK is.
Paladins already over double other tanks in representation as well as other healers most times by nearly the same amount.
Now they will also out dps classes that dont bring the same level of tank or healing capabilities that were already struggling for spots. If ret is more “middle of the pack” there is almost zero reason to bring other specs that they out dps because almost none bring the same level of buffs/cooldowns paladin does.
Newsflash, most players already do lol.
I enjoy warrior and have stuck with it through TBC and now WOTLK but I am an outlier among the communities I have seen form around classic.
Its simple if you want hard mode wow play a feral or warrior tank in +s with people about 500gs above you.
You can’t choose what other people play. This is a 15 year old game. Everyone knew coming into this everyone and their mother was gonna have either a DK or a Paladin, or both. Paladin is know to be KING this expansion (at least accord to OG Wrath and most PR’s.) We knew when choosing to play Wrath it was going to be filled with a lot of DK’s and a lot of paladins. I’m not sure how the rate in which they’re represented means they don’t need a buff to their only dps spec. Just because there’s a lot of them doesn’t mean 90% of them wanna be FORCED to play a role they don’t wanna play. At that point, they might as well just reroll a new main.
Untrue. The numbers are already there. They’re doing about 400-500 more dps, which is still way under nearly every other dps spec. DK’s and Warlocks are still 30-35% ahead of them. Even with the buff, they still are not all that great. They’re still below middle of the pack. They’re higher up then they were don’t get me wrong, but still not quite even middle of the pack. There’s not many specs even after the buff that they are out DPS’ing. Yes, the buff means they might out a handful but what does it matter? You’re gonna be 16th on the dps meters instead of 15th?
Prot and Holy pally were top tanks and healers when it was current content. I guess you weren’t here for that.
This is true. But Blizzard stated that class representation was a goal … So they’re changes are aimed at doing exactly that … Influencing rather than choosing.
I don’t believe that’s true, but I respect if you disagree. I think they’re making ret slightly better so other’s will enjoy playing that spec more than they currently do. They made ret a more viable option than it was, so if you do choose it, it’s a choice that feels more worthwhile than choosing a spec that was consistently near the bottom.
Honestly I don’t begrudge that. I just begrudge that Ret are seen as the only and worst instance that needed help. I don’t buy it. They could and should have broadened the review scope. And to be honest it looks just like they addressed it because Ret made noise.
Warriors don’t make as much noise because more people play Paladins than Warriors, simple weight of numbers.
They brought ret up to fury, they hope. That is how bad they were.
I’m not even convinced by this. We have a 99%er Ret in our guild and a 99%er Fury (not me, I kinda suck) and the Ret is on top most of the time. But they’re roughly equal.
I think the average Fury does better than the average Ret though. But I’ve seen really good Rets compete well against really good Fury’s.
Well, considering in OG Wrath they were doing better in Ulduar than they are now (thanks to the ilvl change) they were the only one who’s dps was negatively effected by the change. Rets cried about it, I would too. Blizzard can’t fix something they don’t know is an issue. However, if simply making enough noise is all it takes, not sure why they don’t do other things that have been cried about like fixing countless bugs, actually doing something about the bots, fixing broken class abilities, adding RDF, etc etc. These are all things that have been screamed about, cried about, and pleaded about to be changed and nothing has happened.
I don’t think they buffed Paladin’s simply because they made noise. They made noise, but had a valid reason in Blizzard’s eyes (as well as mine) to warrant an urgent buff because the content is out and here now. In OG they were actually good dps. In Classic Ulduar, they’re not. Warriors however were always meh/bottom tier up until later in the expansion. If they didn’t fix it soon, the cries would just get louder and and make many people unhappy. Rets receiving a buff doesn’t make a single person unhappy — on it’s own. What makes people unhappy about the ret buff is that people feel that other specs/classes also deserve a buff and are now trying to make noise in order to get the change they want. Like and envy thing. Why do does anyone care if a class they do or don’t play gets a buff? They don’t care about the buff, thy only care about them having been the one to not receive it.
And tbh I really don’t care at all about warriors because my whole point from the very beginning… as in 9-10 hour ago is simply why ret got the nerf to begin with, and again I don’t even wanna argue about the warrior thing again because I agree they should be buffed… but only so they at least have 1 viable spec, because they are bottom tier regardless what spec they play. That can’t be fun for warriors.
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It’s not just the iLvl change. Arms and Feral should be doing much better too and Markman. There’s something funky going on in the code for physical damage.
Once again the difference though is that arms warriors have another dps spec they can play. They can swap specs and maintain the role of dps. Same with ferals. Ferals however might also have a bit of an argument simply because kitty vs boomie is the equivilant in playing an entirely different class. Their playstyle and utility offered is completely changed. Warriors got better as the expansion went forward, where are paladins were god’s through the entire expansion. Warriors are still not great and will get better, however rets are suppose to be good this tier, an they’re not.
Not my point in that case, I’m more just saying I think there’s a problem with how physical dps is being calculated in the code which is borking scaling. Forget the “who deserves a buff” discussion for a min.
There’s potentially an issue for all physical dps.
What about hunter’s other specs? rogues? enhance shamans? Fury warrior?
I’m not so sure that it’s a matter of there being a bug with calculations vs. it’s a noticeable problem for melee dps because they play a middle of the road spec, and other classes are scaling more, and scaling better off of the ilvl buff than they are, and so as Warlocks and Boomies move up, druid and warriors move down.