The only time where there has been a difference that I can think of over the past 10+ years that I’ve been posting here (and Mirasol has been an MVP much longer than I have, so let’s keep that in mind too), has been when a player uses an exploit to avoid a guards ability to attack them where they’re posted to protect others. When an exploit is involved, Blizz absolutely has jumped in to move/action a player for such behavior.
But when an auctioneer is capable of being flagged for PVP (something Blizz can control and toggle), if someone can kill them without an exploit (which is pretty common and easy), it’s not considered zone disruption, just PVP.
As most major cities have more than one AH, and there are a virtual plethora of AH locations for both factions, players are welcome to move to another AH, zone, etc. to still access the AH.
In a game where there are two factions pitted against each other, PVP or NPC killing isn’t, in and of itself, zone disruption.
Also keep in mind that for as long as PVE (actually called Normal) servers have existed, never has Blizz ever said that those servers are PVP-free or void of PVP.
If you want the other player not to kill you faction’s auctioneers, attack the player who is killing them. Get others to do the same.
The section the op quoted did say that gms wouldn’t interfere in any sort of pvp disputes on a pvp realm, referring to classic since there aren’t pvp realms in retail. The way I thought war mode works was that pretty much turning it on put you on a separate layer that functioned as a pvp realm. If that’s true then it’s definitely a pvp problem pvp solution situation. But I would think you couldn’t attack npcs while not in war mode so this shouldn’t be an issue assuming op isn’t in war mode in the city.
If that’s not how it works then it’s definitely how it should work. This also lets us visit opposite faction cities now that they are kinda doing cross faction stuff, while still letting people who want the experience of killing Thrall or whoever is there have it.
The closest to an answer they will give is “as long as there is no exploit, it is allowed”. Otherwise it turns into the griefing argument, which, is also not against the rules.
And people are welcome to suggest changes via the in-game suggestion feature or by posting in a PVP forum or the General Discussion forum too, depending on the version of the game that they whish to provide feedback for.
I cannot see how allowing other players to shut down quest lines for many players - or AHs - for hours on end, even longer, is in the spirit of the contract that Blizzard had us all sign or leave the game if that person has already opted out of PvP.
Most players are raising counterpoints framed by legacy. “It’s how things have always been.” “Two factions are pitted against each other, etc.”
Last year, I wouldn’t have blinked twice. But Blizzard has basically walked back most things even marginally offensive/upsetting, and has had every player re-accept terms promising to essentially be good to each other and specifically not engage in “disruptive behavior”.
Moreover, as has been mentioned by others both here and in another thread, Blizzard has been rather inconsistent as of late as to how they met out punishment. Defending a base in AV is apparently worthy of being banned if others on your team say it is.
If I decide to grief a quest giver for hours and lock up folks progression and got reported 20 times as well… can you tell me for sure I wouldn’t be banned?
Not saying I would do that - I think it’s against both the letter and the spirit of the contract we all signed, but from where I’m standing… Blizzard isn’t very clear about much these days and I’d welcome specifically a blue saying: “it’s still 100% fine to grief others on a PvE server as much as you like, as long as it’s members of the opposite faction and you’re merely preventing people from turning in a quest or using one particular AH, even though you signed a contract that said you wouldn’t disrupt other players.”
While in retail you have the option to better control if you want to be in PVP or not, it still does not preclude any sort of pvp. This game is based on PVP. It would be like playing a first-person shooter and asking that the player who attacked you (per the game rules) be actioned for doing so.
PVP is allowed. Why are the auctioneers flagged for PVP if Blizzard doesn’t want them to be? There are plenty of in-game NPCs not flagged for PVP.
You’re implying that PVP in-game is “disruptive behavior”, but Blizzard has never stated that it is (beyond those exploiting to do so).
Not really. Non-participation has always been against the rules in PVP. For years we’ve seen posts like those stating “I was defending…with zero healing and zero damage for many matches…” People just want it to be an issue now as more people are being caught.
What does “grief a quest giver” mean? Are you going to tell them things that they don’t want to hear? Are you going to stand on top of them making it difficult for others to click them? Are you going to choose a similar name and make people think that you “are” them? I could go on, but “griefing” is such a silly term and one that just means “somebody doing something I don’t like” which is why Blizz doesn’t action for it in WoW.
Yes, as long as you do not exploit to do so. Griefing is “someone doing something I don’t like”, and Blizz has stated time and time again that it is not against the rules , is it a jerk move? Yes, but NOT against the rules. So feel free to commit gnomicide all you want, just don’t exploit to do so.
If the quest giver is flagged for PVP by Blizz, who can choose not to flag them as such, then how is that “griefing”? Killing any NPC flags you for PVP…so attack that player and then the problem really is solved. They’re dead (and you can keep killing them as long as they’re flagged) and then use the NPC when they respawn. That’s just how the game works.
Level up I guess. Again, there are no PVP-free servers. There never has been. If you don’t have max level characters, spread the word in global channels that there’s a target available in the AH!
If you want Blizz to make auctioneers invincible, use the in-game suggestion feature
That would be the thing the other guy is preventing in my hypothetical, unfortunately. Guess they just have to walk away and yield to the bully. That seems, again, very counterintuitative to the contract we all agreed to sign or exit the game.
Again, a legacy argument. I would say after Blizzard got held to task for the toxicity they’ve promoted both within and without their company, things that were taken for granted may not be anymore.
How does killing an auctioneer prevent you from levelling up exactly? You don’t actually have to answer that…since it’s sort of obvious that it doesn’t.
But this isn’t toxicity. It’s a video game where there are two factions fighting each other. That’s not toxic in and of itself. It’s the game. You also don’t have to play the game if it upsets you. There are plenty of games out there where there are no other players.
That seems, again, very counterintuitative to the contract we all agreed to sign or exit the game.
You keep bringing this up, but the social contract does not apply to in-game mechanics that are functioning as designed, i.e. PvP flagged NPCs being killed by enemy players.
No, but that’s consensual. If I don’t want to be flagged, I don’t have to be.
And for what purpose are you killing this NPC? If it’s specifically to diminish the experience of other players who did not sign up for PvP… that’s pretty toxic IMHO.
Okay, if you were flagged as PVP and they killed you as a player, would that be toxic or “disruptive” since you were flagged?
This particular type of NPC is flagged intentionally by Blizzard. So, while YOU might find it “disruptive”, there are other AHs that you can go to (so many), that Blizzard does not feel it’s disruptive based on their rules for their game.
No, but that’s consensual. If I don’t want to be flagged, I don’t have to be.
And for what purpose are you killing this NPC? If it’s specifically to diminish the experience of other players who did not sign up for PvP… that’s pretty toxic IMHO.
But we’re talking about the auctioneers, not you. And while you can choose if you want to be flagged, generally speaking, it still doesn’t mean that there’s any such thing as a PVP-free server in WoW.
PVP
It’s a game based on PVP. There’s still no such thing as not signing up for PVP. Otherwise, there’d be just one faction and no killing of other players…ever.
No, but that’s consensual. If I don’t want to be flagged, I don’t have to be.
The NPCs are flagged, and the enemy player is consenting to be vulnerable to PvP attacks by engaging in such behavior. Your decision not to toggle on your PvP flag and engage them is irrelevant. It is a PvP situation, and the policy is quite clear on that. No Game Master intervention.
