His post:
My post:
You’ll notice he first opened the discussion to broad generalizations of “world pvp on pvp servers.” My response simply followed that same topic.
Well if you want to cherry pick like that you can miss out on the context that was provided to you in the very next sentence.
What cherry picking? His leads with how he thinks the boon ruined/killed wpvp on pvp servers. He gives his anecdote, and ends the post in the same manner. Further in the discussion, he references how BGs gave his server no issues, to which I replied:
His claim is that the boon ruined wpvp. Mine is that the true culprit is BGs.
Actually I said A LOT more than that.
Your response is to a response to someone claiming I am responsible for derailing a thread. I’ve remained on-topic.
Thats not what he said. He said it ruined the wpvp that was being driven by WBs (or more accurately the desire to not lose them/the desire to take them away).
You came in and told him it was BGs that did it.
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Whether or not the chronoboon impacted wPVP is a red herring. It is a significant functional addition to a game that was supposed to be a close re-enactment of the original ‘vanilla’ classic game. It shouldn’t be there. No matter how painful the WB retention problem grew to become among the raiding community, it should not have been introduced.
You guys read these forums. There has been a never ending supply of ideas as to how Classic should be modified to make the game “better.” None of these ideas should be considered. Leave the classic game alone as much as possible. This chronoboon ‘improvement’ should have been denied as have all the rest.
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No, you’re deriving that from his posts. But, again, this begs the question:
Why did wpvp have to be driven by WBs?
It’s because players at the time had no other motivation to pursue it. That is the actual problem and the cause for wpvp’s demotivation is Battlegrounds. You’re both listing the symptoms. I’m identifying the disease.
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For the moment, lets stipulate that BGs killed wpvp. Well, BGs were in OG vanilla so it was entirely appropriate in Classic - regardless of how painful the loss of wpvp might be to some players. Likewise, the chronoboon should not have been introduced regardless of how painful WB loss might be to raiders.
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We won’t agree. I’m not a #nochanges cultist.
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No we won’t agree. I am die-hard no changes. I’ve played unmodified vanilla for many years on private servers and was ecstatic to see Blizzard finally chose to restore a vanilla game. Changes have made me sad.
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Apologies, that was curt on my part. I appreciate that, even if they don’t agree with me, someone being willing to adopt a viewpoint that is different from their own even if it is just for a transient mental exercise.
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If I were to have my biased way, I would agree 100% with you.
That’s hilariously ironic, if you ever look at these forums, I tout for the majority party in the game. Most people like what I have to say.
You don’t even play the game. I am not even going to give you a seconds worth if you can’t review some of these posts
You appeared out of absolutely nowhere.
Take some time to review post history before commenting. You are quite literally a brand new face
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It’s right there in next sentence after the one you quoted and called a “broad generalization”. That’s why I said you cherry picked. If you read one more sentence its pretty obvious what he meant by wpvp being ruined. He wasn’t making a general statement on wpvp, just the wpvp that was driven by the WB meta.
Why did raiding have to be driven by WBs? These questions have answers but where that gets us is nowhere. There are no solutions. It is what it is.
Why does wpvp need to be driven by purely by wpvp motivated players? I mean its nice and all but there’s a line you’re crossing when you say it has to be X or it shouldnt be Y.
I don’t agree. Otherwise wpvp on my Vanilla/TBC PVE realm would have died in May of 2005 instead of a few years later when the game had more stuff to do and see and became a haven for altoholics.
Do BGs impact wpvp? Absolutely. Are they the only reason wpvp died out over time? Nah. The majority of players stopped caring because they defaulted and put an emphasis on efficiency over fun and that’s not the fault of BGs.
When you call BGs a disease you’re insinuating Blizz screwed up by bringing them in and Ill never agree to that. Those two forms could have remained hand in hand but Blizz and the players had other ideas.
A solution to not being able t play your character because apparently you can’t get world buffs any time during the week apart from one day after you raid so you need to log out for the rest of the week is pretty simple, don’t get them. It’s not a requirement to get world buffs if that one other hour you have the ability to play the game all week is so precious to you.
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Only 37 US/EU guilds in 2019 classic logged a complete Naxx clear with no world buffs. All of those guilds raided with world buffs on other weeks and got their gear / practice with the encounters while buffed.
They are mandatory when they are allowed in raids. They’re too strong to NOT get.
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Is it my turn to call cherry picking? Let’s finish the quote
As before, his claim is that the boon ruined wpvp. Mine is that the true culprit is BGs.
I disagree. Understanding the nature of a problem lends to developing a higher-quality solution.
This gets us nowhere. It’s a statement that’s equally applicable for everyone’s critique about anything.
I would expect the motivations for player behaviors on WoW realms that operate under different rulesets, knowledge bases, and are separated by 15 years to be different.
It was a metaphor. My goal is not to have BGs removed from the game, but for the devs to revaluate player motivations. I guess the wording was poorly chosen on my part due to the negative connotation but the topic at hand was questioning what ‘killed’ or ‘ruined’ wpvp. I’m placing the spotlight on BGs because, even though they are an incredibly replayable source of pvp-based entertainment in WoW, they uniquely detract from wpvp participation. BGs pull focus away from participating in many in-game activities but I am belaboring its impact on wpvp because nothing else encroaches on both its participation and access to its rewards. I don’t think that was anyone’s intention when they brought BGs online, it just happened. I have mentioned earlier in the thread that expanding the scope of wpvp is something I’d be interested in, but not at the expense of reanimating previously dead issues.
They aren’t mandatory at all, you think mc-aq are all not possible without world buffs? Naxx is the final raid, doesn’t come out until the very end of the game and is 100% possible without world buffs which you just said yourself. If you don’t want to get them, then don’t, join a casual guild that doesn’t care whether or not you get them. Or if you want to play with a good guild, then don’t be lazy and get them, the choice is yours, but don’t try and force your choice on everyone else when the buffs are 100% optional.
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It doesn’t matter if it’s POSSIBLE to do the raids without world buffs. It clearly is - some guilds cleared Naxx without buffs and SoM didn’t allow them.
The problem is that world buffs are so incredibly strong that no one worth a damn is going to commit their lockouts to your “no world buff” guild if buffs are allowed in raid. Every single US/EU guild that got a “no world buff” clear in classic was actually a guild that raided with buffs most of the time.
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