Dunking on SL is a badge of honor around here. Don’t people know that?! Unless Lady Moonberry is pranking us again than I’ll just have……to like accept it and enjoy the madness 
2 Likes
Shadowlands apologists thinking they’re just So Disruptive for defending something they probably know was objectively awful (or else they do genuinely believe SL was good in which case I’m happy you found a funny hill to do on but I still suggest raising your standards as a media consumer)
5 Likes
At least the WoD apologists waited until BfA came along.
5 Likes
My point is still more of a “why turn Argus into just a patch?” Thinking about it, it feels like such a waste and a part of me does wish we ended Legion in the Tomb of Sargeras/we had another raid before that to replace the loss of Antorus and then had a full blown Argus expansion.
I know with “put your preference” fatigue Blizzard might not have been interest in three straight expansion about the Legion but damn it if it wouldn’t have been better! The Army of Light could have actually have more racial members!!!
I would like books about the peoples and bestiary in World of Warcraft with more lore, customs, beliefs, sketches and drawings about them in several books:
- Eastern Kingdoms
Human (Stormwind / Gilneas / Alterac / Dalaran / Lordaeron) + Undead (Forsaken) + Dwarf (Ironforge / Wildhammer / Dark Iron) + Gnome + Orc (Dragonmaw) + Broken + Worgen + Murloc + Naga + Gnoll + High elf + Blood elf + Troll (Forest - Amani / Jungle - Gurubashi / Ice - Frostmane and Winterax) + Kobold + Trogg + etc
- Kalimdor
Night elf + Orc + Tauren + Troll (Farakki / Darkspear) + Tol’vir + Furbolg + Keeper of the grove + Dryad + Draenei + Broken + Centaur + Goblin + Qiraji + Quilboar + Satyr + Ancients + Treants + Half-orc + Harpy + etc
- Outland
Arakkoa + Gronn + Ogre lords + Ogres + Mag’har orcs + Fel orcs + Mok’nathal + Lobstrok + Rock flayers + Fungal giants + Sporelings + Draenei + Broken + Lost one + Man’ari eredar + Nether dragon + Ethereal + Naga + Blood elf + Felblood elf + Demon Hunter + etc
- Northrend
Nerubian + Vrykul + Troll (Ice - Drakkari) + Furbolg + Tuskarr + Taunka + Earthen + Dwarf (Frost / Iron) + Wolvar + Gorloc + Magnataur + Yeti + San’layn + Lich + Frostbrood + Ymirjar + Death knights + etc
- Pandaria
Pandaren + Mogu + Jinyu + Hozen + Mantid + Saurok + Grummle + Yaungol + Virmen + etc
- Draenor (WoD)
Orc + Ogre + Arakkoa + Saberon + Goren + Gronn + Ogron + Genesaur + Botani + Podlings + Draenei + etc
- Broken Isles-Argus
Vrykul + Nightborne + Tauren (Highmountain) + Drogbar + Furbolg + Storm drake + Lightforged draenei + Man’ari eredar + Nathrezim + Sayaad + Annihilan + Ered’ruin + Mo’arg + Imp + Void terror + Shivarra + Aranasi + Terrorguard + Felbat + Inquisitor + Jailer + Observer + Overfiend + Wyrmtongue + etc
- Kultiras-Zandalar
Human (Kul Tiras) + Mechagon mechagnome + Drust + Siren + K’thir + Tortollan + N’raqi + Troll (Zandalari / Blood) + Sethrak + Vulpera + Ranishu + Ankoan + Gilgoblin + Sea giant + Makrura + Murloc + etc
- Shadowlands
Kyrian + Aranakk + Maldraxxi gladiator + Maldraxxi necromancer + Lich + Slime giant + Venthyr + Ash ghoul + Dredger + Biggun + Steward + Faerie + Sylvar + Vorkai + Tirnenn + Spriggan + Stoneborn + Stone fiend + Gravewing + Attendant + Broker + Fungret + Bloodlouse + Nathrezim + etc
- Dragon Isles
Dragon (Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Black) + Drakonid + Dragonspawn + Dracthyr + Tarasek + Djaradin + Centaur + Tuskarr + Furbolg + Gnoll + Gorloc + Dryad + Titanic watcher + Refti + Niffen + Drogbar + etc
9 Likes
I’m not a fan of Shadowlands, though the Venthyr campaign has been amusing from a story beats perspective. The Maw and the insanity that is that timer crap is just aweful as is having quests with auto removal timers, who cares how long it takes me to do the bloody quest…
I suspect I’ll find something to enjoy about the other island stories as well, though I’m hard pressed to have much respect for any side when it comes to bastion.
The fan theory that the “Jailer” wasn’t the real big bad would actually help the story in my opinion.
3 Likes
I feel like the worst of SHL was only a continuation of the worst of BfA. For two, Sylvanas was a garbage antagonist in both expansions and blowing an entire afterlife on the night elves was just one of many unaccepted apologies for Teldrassil.
5 Likes
Overall, I’m choosing to remain optimistic.
Whilst I, too, hold it as true that a lot of the lore over the past few years has been lacklustre, vague, flat out contradictory, and… more; some has also been pretty good, and I still believe that CDev has the potential to do better; be that belief out of necessity of good faith, I’m not sure.
I personally want CDev to go back and flesh out some of the poorer-delivered story content, and/or correct some of the wrongs in a definitive sense. I think there is value in that.
We all complain about bad story, but we also seem to complain when they attempt to address it, too. Now, I understand that this complaining comes from the solid experience of being let down by CDev time and time again, but you can’t discard hope; do that and you may as well quit it all together. Every new project is a chance for them to get it right; be that chance executed well or poorly.
BFA
On some of the lore I’d like to see, I REALLY want to know…
— Who the Blood Trolls are worshipping now that G’hunn is out of the picture (we back to Hakkas now?), and what their relationship with the Zandalari is like now.
— What the heck is the Tidemother? Was she a great water elemental, a giant Kraken ancient/loa, Azshara in disguise all along, or other? It’s VITAL that we know the answer to this question. I assume the Tidemother does exist, because Brother Pike and others can still call upon her power post-Stormsong’s fall. I’d love some clarification, though.
— Is there a Titan facility beneath Mechagon? There appears to be, but I’d love to know. And, if so, tell us a bit about it.
SL
— Give me more info. on the previous wars waged on the Shadowlands that Maldraxxus has had to defend against.
— Tell us more about the Brokers and the Devourers.
— More the Winter Queen-Elune relationship.
— Cap—or continue—the Drust story from Ardenweald.
2 Likes
I want to know where the Devourers stand, and why they have legs. The In-Between is an infinite void of nothingness, there’s no ground. What’s up with that?
1 Like
I thought Dragonflight lore was generally good. Shadowlands is a nightmare I want to forget though!
I want to know so much more about the Drust!
2 Likes
The Primus came up with the designs but the Jailer stole them from him and gave the designs to the Nathrezim to create them while the Jailer over time improved upon them for Kingsmourne.
I dare say that retcon doomed the start of Vol. 2’s Lore considering Aggramar considers Life itself to be corruption. No doubt Eonar was killed and reduced to that broken Moon above Draenor before Aggramar went to face Sargeras.
Of course Blizzard has stated before the Retcon if the older Lore doesn’t contradict the Chronicle then it’s still may have happened even if it wasn’t mentioned.
The older Lore instance in regards to the Eonar potentially killed by Aggramar would be the Void Revenant in the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds telling us we are maggots crawling to the corpse of a dying god.
If the Void Revenant’s words and the Titan Tech that can control the Genesaurs are still Canon then the Chronicle only showed Aggramar’s actions towards the Sporemounds themselves while withholding all other bits of information on what he did in regards to Draenor including the juiciest one of all.
It would be really, really funny if they did retcon everything in BFA so that all this defining the night elves by trauma stuff in this expac that they did doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. However I don’t think that will happen.
If they stick with the “Titan narrative,” I’d be almost willing to bet we’ll learn that the Shadowlands were ordered by the Titans following a war and that’s what Zooval was trying to undo at Zereth Mortis.
Narrative issues aside, it always struck me as odd how systematic and machine-like the Realm of Death operated. Almost as if it’s been ordered. Additionally, we know the Eternal Ones are robots — very keeper esque — and operate on tight loops with little deviation.
2 Likes
I support all new shadowlands lore. Dethroning the titans was the best part about it.
All realms are likely this way, and seeing it first-hand in Zereth Mortis is probably supposed to give you a sense of “oh no no no, I’m not supposed to be seeing this as a mortal, look away.” The biggest failure of that zone is not leaning into the psychological horror of seeing how the cosmological sausage is made.
I mean, ALL created creatures are robots in a philosophical sense. If you have a universe created by deities, then every single being is “from a 3D printer” as some bozos here always say. How could it be any other way? Creators imply created, and the created can always be viewed from this robotic lens. The creations of the Titans, like the Earthen, are also 3D printed robots.
Saying “guess most mortal races are 3D-printed robots since they were created by deities, gotcha” completely misses the point, the point being that the Shadowlands are a magitech-themed Death bureaucracy run by all sorts of literal automatons programmed to execute tasks pre-encrypted by the Ultra Gods, a very specific fantasy that has been historically associated with the Titans. What Hakkuz says is that the Shadowlands (including Zereth Mortis) are a very orderly and Titan-friendly realm, which is true and something we have all noticed, actually.
4 Likes
Yep, exactly this. My broader point was just that I won’t be mad, surprised, or shocked if Chronicles Vol. 4 makes a pronouncement that the Realm of Death has been infiltrated/taken over by the Realm of Order. I think that door is wide open for Blizz.
I also think doing so would narratively also help explain Zovaal’s motives. I can comprehend that you might not want to be subjected to a different Cosmic Realm when combating whatever the threat that’s coming. You might (rightfully or wrongfully) believe the other Cosmic Realms should be subject to you to properly counter the threat. Is that the best story telling? Absolutely not. But it would add some cohesiveness to what’s currently a mess.
I take your point, but I guess I look at it a bit differently. We know Titans, IIRC, are born from planet souls. I think that’s quite different than “from a 3D printer.” Sure, we could get into a whole philosophical debate about creation and life, but Blizz will never go that deep with their lore, so I won’t either.
Could lore be added that those titan souls are channeled into the Order-version of Zereth Mortis once ready? Totally. But that’s not currently the case and what we do know is that titans are born from planets, which is very different than how the Death-equivalent are created.
I’d like to think, perhaps naively, that there would be more creative freedom in establishing the creation and operation of different cosmic realms. You can pull from different cultures and mythologies when establishing it. Each realm boiling down to some version of “robots” and “3D printers” is simply Order but with steps imo. And if that’s where we end up, welp, that’s where we end up!
Earthen look less like Robots and more like Humanoid Earth Elementals. Same goes for the Titan Keepers. The Stormforged Vrykul are metallic but still Metal Elementals not Robots.
Even Yogg-Saron’s Iron Army was a bunch of Metal Elementals.
Incidentally Zereth Mortis’s Wildlife has Meat(yes you heard me Meat) so whatever they are is biological with metallic shell hatching from strange eggs.
1 Like
Vol’jin on the cover gives me hope to dismantle alliance bias.