No?
Like I said. You’re incapable of extrapolating information from more than one source.
Including in the same interview.
They discuss Thrall’s and Garrosh’s weaknesses and strengths. And always, every time, it is Thrall’s being raised by humanity that is his strength, and Garrosh’s ‘orciness’ that is his weakness.
And I mean, this.
lol.
They literally turned the height of what orcs should want to be into the SS.
And you won’t address it because you know you’re wrong.
You can keep repeating this without actually engaging with the refutation of it, but it won’t make the refutation go away.
I get it you have your mantra you keep going on loop. Doesn’t make it true.
I didn’t engage with the Kor’kron argument because it was irrelevant to what was being said at the time. But no, just because you point at them and say “this is what Orcs aspire to be” doesn’t make it true either. You just say things idk.
There is no extrapolation here.
She literally flat out didn’t mean what you said.
You’re just schizo posting at this point, man.
She never said nor ever even hinted at what you’re trying to say.
It’s all in your head.
You just…
You just can’t understand this, truly.
It’s honestly tragic how absolutely brainrotten you are.
I’m not explaining this to you anymore.
It’s like arguing with a flip-flop, man.
Start arguing one thing, you lose, switch to the other thing, you lose, switch back to the first thing as if you weren’t just proven flat-out wrong.
Keep switching back and forth, back and forth.
Pick an argument and stick with it…
Oh wait, you can’t, because you’ve been proven wrong several times.
Better fall back to the ol’ reliable of saying there’s somekind of ‘hidden message’ in Christie’s words…
Where you just lie about what she said:
Like this.
She never said this.
Or anything like this.
And you’re wrong.
Saurfang, for one, was never turned into a villain and died a hero.
I’m not addressing it because I’m not moving on to an entirely different conversation because you lost so bad on the previous ones.
Like, what do you think you’re doing here, man?
‘Oh, lost that one, switch to a different argument, wait until that argument is off-cooldown then go back to it once I am losing this one.’
You’re not fooling anyone.
Keep crying.
Well, that is because Wrathion is a smug donkey often, which lends to making him optimally punchable. And he historically has had a habit of avoiding admitting mistakes due to his immense ego.
I think it has exactly 0% to do with anything POC related.
I’d say the two are connected especially since characters who’ve done similar or worse, really don’t get the same kind of flak from Blizzard themselves. And Blizzard chose to write Wrathion’s story for their major Poc character anyway. So using him as a punching bag for their own writing decisions… doesn’t sit right.
Wrathion is a PoC.
Piece of Crud.
Wrathion deserved to get punched. His skin colour had nothing to do with that.
It was a lovers quarrel.
yeah it’s this.
I disagree that this has been Thrall’s vibe. Before the WoD retcon, the official word was that orcish society was shamanistic and not given to making war without a legitimate cause. Thrall was supposed to be bringing the orcs back to their roots, not teaching them human ways.
I think both things can be true at the same time. Thrall was absolutely this character who early on was a “civilize the savages” type. Like I don’t even think the writers in the early years were shy about this. As mentioned before the term “noble savage” was used BY the writers and artists when referring to the Orcs.
The difference is whether you think he’s teaching them alien (non-orc) ways or not.
What… no, that isn’t the point at all. What? Good god why am I trying to explain anything other than literal text with Warcraft fans. You people don’t know what subtext is that’s my bad sorry.
No need to be rude. I’ll spell out what I mean for you.
I don’t think Thrall can be “civilzing the savages” if he is bringing them back to their own roots. A “white savior” kind of thing would be someone who brings in superior values from outside (i.e., Thrall bringing human values to the orcs). Before the retcon where the devs started saying that Thrall learned everything from Taretha Foxton, that wasn’t the case.
Lord of the Clans came out before War3, so I’m not sure what retcon you’re talking about.
I can add a specific example here, though.
For the ‘white-savior’ aspect of this.
Because although Thrall was returning his people to a ‘shamanistic past’, he was still bringing in foreign ideas that were meant to ‘civilize’ them.
Namely, the idea of ‘The Kingdom of Durotar’ as it was called in War3.
The idea of taking these largely clan-based and unsettled people and ‘civilizing’ them into a Kingdom structure.
Though, the idea of the ‘noble savage’ doesn’t mean to simply take foreign ideas.
Rather it means the opposite, it means that these ‘savage people’ who are depicted in a racist and backward way have an aspect of ‘simple-minded nobility’ to them. Which the Orcs are meant to exemplify.
However, that’s only tackling a portion of what he meant when he says the Orcs take from the trope of the ‘noble savage’.
The Orcs, are literally meant to depict that.
‘Oh, these brutal, savage, and tribalistic people are also noble and honorable! Look at them!’
When talking about the concept of the noble savage, it’s about portraying these kinds of cultures as primitive and ‘savage’, whilst also portraying them as having good qualities because of their ‘simple-minded’ nature. There’s a level of infantilization that goes into it.
It’s a trope, you know what a trope means, yes?
It’s in the way they are depicted ranging from aesthetics to the way they talk.
I’m really not sure how to describe this to you, you really just have to look up the term and figure it out for yourself here.
The white-savior trope does factor in here as well, but it isn’t the same nor as omnipresent with the Orcs as the noble savage trope.
This is also a term used specifically by the writers, especially in early works and concept pieces.
In the book Rise of the Horde, they pretty much spell out the Orcs prior to demonic corruption as a simple ‘innocent’ people who are in-touch with nature, representing that idea of the ‘uncorrupted man’. Where really, they liken them more to animals than they do an actual group of people.
The noble savage trope also works as a way to fetishize native peoples.
The problem with this trope, beyond that it’s incredibly racist, it also just shows that Blizzard lacks understanding in how actual cultures like this function. Rather opting for tacky racist tropes than actual realistic depictions of people.
Lord of the Clans didn’t depict Taretha Foxton as the single most important figure in Thrall’s life and source of all his philosophy about the world. That is something that devs and fans have been drifting toward over the past several years, to the point where it constitutes a retcon. She was a human that he spent some time with, who was kind to him. She was an important figure in his life, but not the central figure.
I’m not seeing it. The word “kingdom” is pretty meaningless when they don’t have a king, nobles, or any of the other social trappings of a human kingdom. It seems pretty clear that they (i.e. Blizzard) were just using it as a synonym for nation. Didn’t they also call Dalaran and Kul Tiras “kingdoms,” despite the fact that neither of them is a monarchy either?
Now, is the society that Thrall founds exactly like orcish society on Draenor? Probably not, but I would argue that he is improvising in response to their unique situation, rather than importing “civilized” ideas from humans. The orcs are a ragtag band who have been through decades of imprisonment, and no single clan is numerous enough to be its own nation or dominate the new one. Thrall has to forge them into a new society, but not one that is specifically modeled on human lines. It’s not like the idea of living together in a fortified place is alien to them. The fact that Thrall takes the title of Warchief is a clear signal of his philosophy of maintaining as much continuity with their heritage as is practical.
I’m not going to address the “noble savage” part of your post right now because that’s a different discussion. I’m just interested in the subject of Thrall specifically. I don’t think the common fan statement that he was “raised by humans and imposed human values on the orcs” is a fair one.
My take was that he was taking them back to their traditional ways, but he can’t entirely escape the influence of his up-bringing.
Getting 100% back to what they were won’t be possible. So there will be influences.
Agreed.
Eh, maybe a few. That’s probably unavoidable. But people talk like he’s spent all his time with humans and imposes an entire foreign lifestyle and value system on the orcs.
Did Christie create Wrathion?
I think Wrathion was created by Afrasiabi, I’m not sure though
If that’s what you’re complaining about, you have to admit that YOU are part of the problem.