No, when even Normal Ny’alotha raid numbers show that people don’t play sub par specs, your case completely disintegrates.
Both sides can get what they want : an RPG choice. You however are opposed to others getting that choice.
Even Wyrmrest Accord Raids Mythic :
I disagree when it comes to gameplay. Especially considering if you want to be the best at something you better hope that the same Covenant is also superior in other forms of content. Personally I want to go Necrolord for the aesthetic but want to primarily be a PvP player. Which the correct Covenant choice for pushing Rating is going to be either Kyrian or Venthyr.
I don’t support the idea of a system that has this level of restriction also being tied to playing subpar in other forms of content primarily because it’s not your first choice.
That sounds like a community problem. Also as big as wow is. I doubt all guilds are like that. If guilds are not willing to adjust to the new rule sets, than that might be the community just being hard headed or not as good as they think they are.
In this community everything makes resentment. The fact it does have weight and players can pick to be weaker in some aspects, and the community will “punish” them for it in a pug settings shows how this community is.
The game is going to be balance around the system, and you are acting like you can’t do the hardest content without min maxing, you can do tough content with the limits this system gives and get it done.
Min/maxing is a goal. Blizzard will balance the game base off these systems so why are you so upset?
Because Blizzard hasn’t really given any indication to grant them confidence in the balancing department. Legion Legendaries were imbalanced, Artifact Armor was imbalanced and Corruptions were imbalanced. Why should players think Covenants are going to be any different?
Trust them this time, we know they got literally every borrowed power system they’ve released wrong but they’ll do better this time.
I want to come back to this, just to prove to you how ridiculous this all is, let’s try this excercise together. Ion said :
Let’s go through the trees together. You can browse them here, in full transparency :
For Kyrian : the only Soulbind passive that interacts with the Class ability is Pelagos’ Combat meditation :
Literally just a passive Mastery increase from casting that ability. Easily reworked. The other 2 Soulbinds mostly interact with Phial of Serenity, something that’s not tied to the Class ability.
Let’s go Venthyr next : Theotar the Mad Duke’s Wasteland Propriety is the only ability that interacts with the Class ability :
Flat versatility gain by activating the ability. Starting to see a pattern here ?
Night Fae is a bit more involved, 2 Soulbinds have modifiers for the class ability, Niya has Grove Invigoration, again, flat mastery gain by activating the ability. And Dreamweaver has a flat Haste “Field of Blossoms” (oh god, I’m gonna be sick…) that could literally proc off anything or appear based on any ability, but instead is tied to your class ability.
You get the picture yet ? None of these are very intricate and “intertwined” spells, they’re like flat stat increases based on a cast. That cast could literally be anything else.
Let’s do conduits next. Since Ion claims the all intrusive “Covenant Conduits”. There’s 3 types. Finesse, Endurance and Potency. Of those, Potency has a “Covenant Conduit”. Let’s be fair here : 1 Covenant conduit, out of a list of like 10 spec potency conduits that have nothing to do with Covenants. You could literally delete it and it would change nothing. No one would even notice its gone as there are plenty of other Potency conduit choices.
So when the lead designer of WoW attempts to gaslight us with his “this is all complex and intertwined and we can’t just remove the class ability”, it shows 1 of 2 things : Malice or ignorance.
“It’s the community that is wrong!”.
The track record seems pretty clear. When it comes to balancing, they have a hard time doing it. I have yet to hear a strong argument as to why it’s a bad thing for players to have access to the abilities and be able to come to their own conclusions on what they want to play.
I mean how can you say that? They keep nerfing and buffing things all the time?
It goes against the very thing Blizzard is known for. You can say they don’t get it right, but the very out cry people are doing because you know Blizzard changes systems.
I mean I dislike Blizzard also, the Mods on the forums, and the work culture they have. My friend had to quit working at it as well due to management problems. I don’t like to defend Blizzard.
However on this. Just because a system changes, does not mean the systems are bad. MMOS will always change, and right now this is something many players like, and many dislike. It will change again.
So just let people who will enjoy it. Do so for awhile.
The thing is I want meaningful RP choice like choosing how the story goes for me.
What I don’t want is not being able to chose the covenant I want because my best ability is in another covenant.
Power shouldn’t be part of a meaningful choice, separate Power from Character choice.
I played alot of SWTOR after I left WoW at the start of Cata, You had character power separated from choice. I can go full dark side evil sith lord and that doesn’t affect the gear or abilities I can chose from it only affects cosmetics and the story.
Covenants shouldn’t offer power, only story and cosmetics just like with other MMORGS’s like SWTOR where I get choice that only impacts the story and cosmetics.
Also… Blizzard can’t balance stuff… Their tract record is dismal at best.
You’d enjoy it without the class ability just the same. It would literally be the same system, soulbinds, conduits, signature ability, weekly event, all that stuff, just not your “extra” “class” ability.
And without the class ability : Everyone could enjoy it. For the whole expansion. That would be 100% better.
Can you show me examples of underplayed/overplayed classes getting buffs/changes in BFA that significantly alter their usage in raid?
Some RPers have already spoken out about why they don’t like they system, and why it makes the idea of meaning choice and loyalty a joke.
These same people are the ones who have voiced that outside of spite, both sides CAN get what they want. It just requires discipline. Something those RPers have no problem exercising.
You can’t say that no. You can’t really speak for me. I like that each faction has power tied to it, and that weight matters to who I pick and pros and cons of it.
I love how you skipped my entire big posts that shows you all the details about why your argument is flawed and why Ion himself has made a pretty poor argument. Was it too long to read ?
Change doesn’t bother me. Ignoring history does. Like I said…
None of these things have gone without issues because they weren’t balanced properly. What’s also being ignored historically is that almost every launch in World of Warcrafts history has been met with some kind of extreme imbalance. So with that in mind having some kind of restriction doubles down hard on players choices IF they choose incorrectly.
The launch is where the biggest growth is going to occur for the playerbase and the biggest growth that Blizzard’s going to see in the time played metric for WoW. So the best thing to do during that time is to allow players to get into your systems and mess around and create the builds they enjoy. Not punish them for wanting to experiment.
I’ve seen people say that they’re tired of following guides and blueprints. I can guarantee you that this decision is only going to push players even harder to follow those guides because they don’t want to slip in the cracks and be the ones who’re a liability to whichever group they’re running with.
Well thankfully it looks like Blizzard learned that lesson this time around with it being craftable.
Funny how when you do something right, no one really complains about it…
Classic move from people arguing against opening systems. They’ll skip an entire reply choosing to reply to a tiny part of it.
Same way she will be unable to reply to what sweeping class changes that blizzard is known for happened.
More disingenuous takes on what’s “meaningful” and pretending the only way people dislike covenants is if they are min maxers huh?
How have yall been doing this for like 3 months straight?
I’ve seen SOME complaining that apparently we have to go to the Maw for the mats. I mean I didn’t really expect to craft a legendary from the vegetable souls in my Ardenweald garden but I guess a lot do?