I’d bench a guildie if they were completely sub par bringing the whole group down. This isn’t magically not the case even just heroic guilds. Still gotta pull your weight.
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That is removing the system the way it is design right now. Changing it they said would undo the plans and the core of the expansion system.
The change you want would remove the system.
No, that is asking for the system we were promised at Blizzcon.
Removing the class ability changes overall nothing in the soulbind/conduit system, the transmog, lore, story tie-ins and special weekly events.
Venthyr for instance would require 1 modification on 1 soulbind to remove the class ability. 2 of their soulbinds have 0 passives that interact with the class ability. And the 1 soulbind that does, the ability is “grants X versatility when you cast the class ability”, that can be tied to about anything else.
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Ok. But since this system forces my DK to go night fae to optimize my character im still going to resent it. I dont see how people can act like we can’t give our negative feedback on such a bad feeling.
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That’s a bad player issue, not a bad min/maxing issue. If someone gets benched in normal then they probably need to figure out how to play their class before joining a raid group anyway.
Yes, bad player such as you, who picks gear because it looks good rather than performs well, or picks Meme Covenants, rather than the one that does 30% extra DPS.
Funny, now they need to figure out their class ? I thought you didn’t need to do that except if you “clear World first”.
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Well Blizzard said they got plans for it and changing it would undo the systems they got in place.
I mean we don’t know what said plans are in future, but that is the answer you got. Power tied to choice plays a big part of the expansion and future content to come.
I also don’t agree with the whole can’t min max thing. I can still min/max at the pros my char has, I can still build around its good sides and be the best it can be. I just can’t do it all. You can still min/max with the rules the game sets.
Honestly, my biggest problem with covenants is that they are complex in a way that feels way more like a tedious chose than a “fun rp experience” … and personally, I don’t get why people have such a hard time understanding this.
It’s like they are triggered at people complaining and refuse to admit the obvious design flaws. Or maybe they’re not even smart enough to understand the design flaws and that practical day-to-day game play is just as important (IMO, more important) than RP choice.
And let’s be clear, screw the numbers, I don’t even care about that anymore… I just want a system that doesn’t feel clunky and tedious to micromanage. I want a system that’s intuitive enough for someone new to the game to just be able to pick up and play and doesn’t feel like it’s fighting you every step of the way with needless layers. For example, how smart and intuitive will it feel to not be able to equip an upgraded conduit you get from dungeon or raid for an entire week, simply because you already socketed that slot earlier in the day. Or how fun and intuitive will it feel to not be able to slot a conduit for your tank spec because it’s slotted with your heal spec conduit?
I mean, why do we have this? Why is it getting in our way? Why is just wanting to play the game something that Blizzard feels they need to put roadblocks in front of? Are they creatively bankrupt? Is there no other system they can implement that gives the best of both worlds? Fun RP choice AND fun day-to-day game play?
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In typical Blizzard fashion, they don’t even understand their own design.
Literally nothing in Covenants is really tied to the class ability itself. Removing the class ability changes about nothing. Like I said, for Venthyr : 1 passive for 1 soulbind needs to have its trigger changed. That’s nothing.
“Don’t worry, it’ll be fixed in 9.1”. 
You can’t if you pick a covenant that does double digit % of sub par performance because you picked the wrong covenant.
The only choice I see is do I want to perform well or handicap myself. I mean when the choice of power is so obvious it’s laughable. I would love to play Necrolords on my DK. But really? Pick a useful covenant or the one that thematically matches my character but could actually hurt m+ runs by pulling extra packs. No thanks. I don’t want to get turned down for groups or hurt my friends runs because of my “choice”.
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again yes you can, and you can also wait a week to get it changed.
You got the tools to fix the problem.
You’re a salt mine all on your own.
If you change your Covenant, then you’re stuck at square one : You’re now playing the Covenant you don’t like and don’t feel fits your character.
I don’t want to switch covenants, I want to pick one based on the flavour I want to play my Character as.
Also, that’s not what is on a weekly lockout. You’re thinking reconfiguring your Conduits, that has a weekly lockout. That’s also quite insane. It would be like if I couldn’t swap talents except once each week.
You’re the one saying you wear gear because it looks good, not my fault you make yourself out to be a bad player.
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You’ll be fine with the new system. Have a good night.
When you’ve been so thoroughly defeated and don’t have any arguments left.
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That is a choice. You made the choice for power for something you might not like for looks.
That has weight.
The content that you can do. You can pick the more rpish choice and still do it. But if you want to do super hard content be best of best. You got to give up something. That is ok. That makes the choice have value.
All a good thing for rpgs.
Most of them have no arguments. There’s only been one legit argument from the pro-locked covenant supporters - and that essentially boils down to spite.
Even RP players don’t like the restrictions with the system. They realize that those restrictions actually negate the “meaning” behind the choices.
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No, it’s not a choice. I didn’t choose power, I literally can’t stand playing WoW at a low level, it’s outright boring. Thus I need to play at a higher level, and to do that, you need to find a guild that plays at that level, and no guild that plays at that level will tolerate players that don’t spec and gear correctly to maximize the guild’s chances at killing bosses.
No, it creates resentment, it has no weight. The choice is made through the ability design and tuning, not through actual flavour as is intended.
No. You can’t. You’re going to be stuck in a guild that can’t kill bosses, won’t ask players who are holding back everyone to step up, and just after a while, stop trying because “that boss is too hard, maybe next tier”.
There’s nothing good in preventing people from picking the Covenant they want as far as RPG go. That’s literally anti-RPG. I WANT to pick my Covenant based on RPG value. I can’t because that means not being able to do the content at the level I want to do, it would relegate me to doing the content at a level I find mind numbingly boring.
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Um many of us have a case just fine. We just don’t agree.
You don’t have a moral high ground, and you can deflect all you want. The reasons are clear on both sides, and both sides can’t get what they want.
It is that simple. Also to say even Rpers don’t agree is silly. If you know anything about rpers. RPers are the biggest mix bag of them all.
^100% that.
Many players don’t care to try and convince a player with an opposing view to come to the other side. It’s hilarious that anyone thinks they can “win” an argument on a video game forum anyway. lol