I’ll answer this - because you’re not wrong but it’s not really the issue I’m trying to raise.
You are correct that Fury is producing more parses than Ret - and this can proxy for raid representation.
To be precise, Fury is 10th on the representation ladder out of 20 (counting only the accepted legit dps specs)
Ret by comparison is 13th.
So by this measure Fury aren’t doing great but they are doing better than Ret.
Source:
This picture is more interesting to me though we we look at overall class representation. When we look at it by class there is a clear winner and a clear loser:
1 - Pal
605,828
2 - Lock
494,602
3 - Druid
483,173
4 - DK
474,143
5 - Sham
390,572
6 - Priest
389,050
7 - Mage
362,533
8 - Rogue
325,262
9 - Hunter
286,177
10 - War
275,408
This is across all roles and specs on a class basis.
My contention is that Warriors as a class have a case to be looked at due to low representation. And while Fury is okay in terms of representation is is not good and could probably be a good candidate for a buff.
The one thing I would caution you about with looking at overall representation like this is that it’s a better indicator of what classes are being played, and less about which are being selected in a raiding environment.
This has a lot to do with perceived power in any expansion more than a balance problem that has to be fixed. This is made worse by the fact that the classic population is much more likely to reroll from expansion to expansion to the new best thing rather than sticking to a main.
That’s why I have tended to limit the views to the harder fights, where guilds are hand selecting their composition rather than an overview of the population, and I limit the views to roles to see where classes are excelling / struggling. There’s a lot of data available, so it’s important to consider what each data set is telling you.
In those views you’ll see plenty (too much) representation of holy/prot paladins, and laughably bad representation of rets.
For warriors, fury looks somewhat respectable in that view, but prot is struggling (which is likely the bigger concern here as we are sure that fury will continue to become more and more appealing over time, whole prot doesn’t have that same benefit).
I don’t know the relative strengths / weaknesses of prot warriors compared to the other tanks that make them widely unused. People tend to focus on some stuff that doesn’t really matter much when it comes to tank selection. In TBC classic, many guilds just auto used bears as their main tank, despite the fact that their health and threat values, while the highest, weren’t really relevant because the other tanks could also hold threat and survive the bosses. I’m not sure what is driving DK/Pal tanks as the primary tanks currently, and what could be done for warriors to break some of that perception that they are bad (all of this content was originally done largely with warriors).
Looking at this numbers, i got the feeling that pallys are slightly over represented.
Warlocks are grossly over represented, given that they are the second highest in number, while only filling one singular role.
And warriors are supremely under represented.
Guess my raid with 2 fury 1 ms warrior, but only 2 pally (1 prot 1 heal) is the absolute exception
DPS warrs provide nothing that isn’t covered by classes that do more damage. A single token warr of any spec can be brought for commanding shout. And fury is still low-middle at best.
However, I don’t think they should buff fury. I also don’t think they should’ve buffed ret or nerfed unholy.
As a warrior main DPS and MT in Wrath, excuse me? starting ToC if you aren’t pumping out damage, that’s a you problem. Arms performs well in raiding if you don’t want to be sweaty and fury is just a monster, and you should be happy with that 10% ‘nerf’ because the other version of hit cap or slow off hand by 80% unless you put talents in were far worse. Fury is fine, you’ll scale really well and people will hate you for it.
Aye, and this argument applies to basically every low DPS, which is why it doesn’t make sense to throw out raid utility as a reason a class should stay bad when it is literally all designed with overlap.
Keep ur Buffs… I’ll take raw progression and more armor pen and wait for better weapons to drop… Don’t need any buffs to warriors. The crying from the other classes would be too nauseating…
Paladins who think they need to do damage forget the monstrous utility the class brings.
If they did on par damage they’d be a busted class.
Warriors complaing about TG is also a joke.
The nerf exists for a clear reason. No other class gets to bring the extra stats afforded to two 2h weapons. While being able to simultaneously enchant them both to a positive end. In addition to having a potent legendary end expansion.
Who cares about damage numbers. A lot of people I know don’t play because that’s the top damaging class they play it because that’s the role play experience they want to have or nostalgia for the class they enjoyed back in the day. Trying to justify buffing a class based on what’s being played is ridiculous. That stat has little to nothing to do with balance or actual numbers.
If it’s being played well or just underperformjmg.
Not everyone can be number one on the DPS charts. There are plenty of classes with only DPS specs that don’t get that honor or have the luxury of any utility. Or have way more complex rotations.
Finally raid compositions usually have a naturual limit to the amount of melee vs. ranged. Not always the other way around.
At the end of the day you can only raid in a group that has room for you. As such melee will always be underrepresented.
And paladins have 3-4+ spots available to them and can play any spec they desire. Warriors compete for a single spot in a raid and that is all 3 specs combined fighting for the same spot. If you have one, you don’t need the others.
For ToC and above It performs well, It’s not going to beat a fury warrior, feral druid, etc, but It’s not a dumpster fire spec as warriors scale well with gear as most people or a good portion won’t even be doing heroic at a comp level, at which point you’re fury.
The problem is this however: Now that Blizzard have weighed in with ad hoc class and spec balance changes and have seemingly done so in response to community protest they have set in motion what is effectively a buff/nerf arms race.
Every class role and spec now has a green light to campaign hard for their own buffs, or nerfs to specs they compete with. In this environment any class that just “shuts up and plays” will fall behind.
The only fix to this situation now is for Blizzard to commit to progressive patching with class reviews with across the bord balancing patches and class reviews aka like retail. I guess they could try and revert the changes and announce they’re not doing class balancing and it was a mistake to try. But that will now have a host of problems of its own. They have to go all in with this IMO.
The ad hoc “this will shut them up” patching was a huge own goal and Blizzard have made a rod for their own backs.
