Yes and no, to the both of you. In general, most gear will come out of the raid, while certain slots will come out of M+ farming.
For some classes, like this one, It’s not so cut and dry, If I wanted to push DPS to the limit, A good portion of the gear only comes from M+.
I was a mythic 8/8 in Uldir, although we didn’t farm it a lot.
By the end of the patch, I was wearing at least half M+ gear. Maybe as much as 70%. It’d be different if we farmed it as opposed to pushing CE, but M+ at 15s puts out a lot of loot if you can push the keys up, and has item builds that there isn’t room for in raid.
In 8.0, the Mythic+ weekly cache awarded 385 Azerite gear, which was mythic raiding level, 380 nonazerite gear, which with a single level of warforging would be mythic raiding level, and 370 gear at the end of every dungeon, which when titanforged was mythic raiding level, and given you could run unlimited mythic+ dungeons, you could expect to get titanforged items with reasonable frequency. In raiding, your typical weekly best item level was the nonwarforged 385 because you only got one raid lockout.
In 8.1, mythic+ is still at those item levels relative to the new mythic raid level of 415, except you save residuum for the 415 mythic Azerite gear.
Agreed. It hasn’t worked with them balancing the game for the highest functioning players either.
So let me break this down. The complaint is that casual players can’t push keys and the lower keys don’t give upgrades because they already out gear it?
If you can’t see the flaw in this then allow me to open your eyes for you.
Here are a few facts:
Mythic + is not a casual friendly format
Mythic raids are not casual
Mythic + in legion and BfA are virtually the same except they condensed the key level comparable to rewards(legion Max ilvl +15, BfA Max ilvl +10)
The problem is the M+ system or the dungeon difficulty or the rewards from them. It’s the fact that players have received rewards past what they are capable of earning. This in turn makes content irrelevant and lessens the desire to improve. BfAs tuning has been pretty spot on for not focusing on casual or super high end players. More so for those in the middle range who want to improve over time and play for the Long haul.
Raiderio or any system similar will never go away because ilvl doesn’t matter. Gear is so inflated that low skill level players can have the required gear but fail to use it properly. Pugs have always had higher requirements than any other avenues because you don’t know who you are getting, no one with a key wants to insert it just have a player at 400ilvl die multiple times on the first 2 trash packs because they don’t know how to position properly or use the interupt button. And to be fair, that’s just life in general. The person with the better resume wins every time. Raiderio is your resume for pug M+.
Unfortunately there is no “easy” solution to the casual players problem. M+ isn’t tuned around them so it’s not going to change. The “free gear” is more for alts or catch up for returning players. The only real thing that can be done is put more time into improving your own gameplay, having correct up to date add-ons/WAs, and doing research on what needs to be done/how to play your character properly. Otherwise as casual player you will always end up out gearing content that you can’t actually complete.
Why though?
Who are mythic 2-9 tuned around? These dungeons in legion were tuned to casual players. It wasn’t until you got over +10 that you had to deal with tyrannical or fortified, and casual players largely were happy to spend their time in 2-9s.
In BFA they took away the easy 2-9s and made them tuned towards nobody. There was really no need to do that, the system in legion was great and had something for everybody.
The whole point of having a system of increasing difficulty is that lesser players can tackle the lesser difficulties and better players can tackle the harder difficulties. M+ scales infinitely, so there is no reason for the difficulty to increase so quickly. Casual players in BFA have nowhere to go after M0 (which are on a weekly lockout).
If people can’t do M+2, they’re not casual, they’re bad.
Call it whatever you want. In legion those players had content tuned towards their skill level. In BFA they don’t. The entirety of 2-9 is tuned towards players who probably haven’t done a +5 since the first week of the expansion. The system scales infinitely, so why do the lower levels need to be so difficult? To challenge people who aren’t going to be doing them anyway?
To prevent a drastic difficulty jump from reaching +10, and I think that worked. To ease people into it.
Players who struggle in 2s have content. It’s either continue doing 2s or run 0s. Does everyone forget that world quests in legion gave heroic dungeon quality gear? 2s are the intro to mythic plus. Mythic plus is about affixes and how they impact dungeons. A dungeon without affixes isn’t plus. If a very minor increase to health walls you, then you need to run that until you’re good enough to move on.
If you’re struggling on 2/9 mythic, you keep pulling it until you can get past it. You’re wanting to do things past your competency which is never a good time. Such is any game. Completing a game on easy is only the beginning. Eventually you switch to hard and if you are still interested expert.
End game isn’t for people who don’t put in effort.
They changed the way the Azerite vendor works and costs around Method and Limit… just to delay them by a few hours. The rest of us get to spend weeks farming for one single piece.
Someone needs to step up and coach players willing to listen and read up on their class. I usually take a few mins when i see a geared Enhancement shaman or Assassination rogue play terribly and they are willing to listen. It doesn’t cost me anything to give them some resources (class discord) and a gentle nudge in the right direction.
The “they’re bad:” argument quickly falls flat on its face when a player takes a little time to consider that this person may be new, uninformed, or at their skill cap.
Skill cap is a very real thing, some people will never stop keyboard turning unless you rip the a, s, d, and w out of their keyboard or disable it in their keybinds. Some people will never stop clicking spells unless you remove the core rotational spells from the interface and make them use keybinds.
I am more in the camp that blizzard should reduce their unfortunate trend of making classes too easy to play at optimum levels. There should be a little complexity and a lot more nuance when making decisions in encounters.
More encounters should be introduced to encourage players to use a better toolset. Like jade fire masters and opulence being keyboard turner unfriendly.
I don’t see enough things in 5 man dungeons that help teach skills.
at their skill cap.
This is M+2, not mythic raids.
There’s still a drastic difficulty jump, it just occurs much lower than it did in legion. Which means that the players who weren’t capable of doing +10 and above in legion now have no content aimed at them. For people who were already doing tyrannical dungeons in legion, nothing really changed at all. It only changed for people who weren’t good enough to do them anyway.
I’m ilvl 370 and can barely heal a m+2 as discipline. I chose the wrong class/spec at the wrong time (subbed beginning of january)
I’m ilvl 370 and can barely heal a m+2 as discipline. I chose the wrong class/spec at the wrong time (subbed beginning of january)
Failure to play properly. Disc priests are more than capable.
There’s still a drastic difficulty jump, it just occurs much lower than it did in legion.
Arguable that slightly more numerical output is harder than dealing with an actual affix.
typical git gud comment. get lost loser.
typical git gud comment. get lost loser.
Well, when you’re struggling to do m+2, getting good is pretty much needed (or finding good people) since healer’s own performance isn’t that critical.
Is he a loser because he doesn’t struggle in introductory content?
There were no affixes at +2 and +3 in legion.