This xpac is casual friendly though.
Itâs not that them going the âClassic wayâ is the problem. They looked at the Classic numbers and said, âHey! Players are really doing this content despite the lack of gear drop chance. Letâs do this in Retail!â. And they did this without putting a soft-safety net in for their retail players who probably have never even experienced that level of grind in an mmorpg , ever. Just as Preach said in that video, they didnât really put much else in as an alternative gear progression, as they have in previous expansions. Raid or Die doesnât work in Retail because it hasnât been this way since maybe Wrath. And even then in Wrath, there was alternatives one could to take as they progressed (badge gear being one example). However, I feel this design choice was on purpose for lengthening purposes. Theyâve essentially gated gear for no ryhme or reason other than keeping players on a wheel with no cheese. Primarily for subscriptions. They donât want us feeling âdoneâ and unsubbing like we use to apparently.
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Nah. Iâd say this expansion is great for a casual player.
Say you only play for like 3 hours per week.
Well, the weekly content will take up that amount of time.
You do your covenant quests, do a low layer Torghast run, and you got yourself a legendary item, cov reward armor that stacked together is pretty great for a casual player and some fun rewards.
True casuals do group finder content and world quests. And doing what I said will make your experience fun.
Itâs even alt friendly because all you âneedâ to do is what I listed above. Spend couple hours on one toon, then do the next. The time gating eliminates any grind that would be hard to catch up.
Well you can review my toon, I play less than 8 hours a week until now. Itâs not impossible.
Pretty much. It then forced a small % to do X Y Z for progression while the rest are kinda in a weird spot. Itâs a shame 'cause Ion said they are happy with it, and have a âmodelâ they went by . lol.
Thatâs what WoW used to be though.
Even BFA had things you could do in an hour and get rewarded for.
You would not get rewarded as lucratively as more dedicated content but that is literally untrue that you could get nothing to show for an hourâs of effort.
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I canât see what the casual friendliness of this expansion everyone talks about.
The content is hard time-gated, rendering player progression stagnant. loot drops are a drought of RNG with no player infliuence in their aquisition other than to just keep getting on the gear treadmill
Like, where is this casual friendliness when the entire point of casual friendliness is being able to have greater control and success over your effort put in to the game when this game doesnât have an adequate effort-reward ratio?
Hard disagree.
Players will bemoan a forevergrind but the fact of the matter is that the thing the forevergrind facilitated is that you could at least progress a tiny inch by inch. With renown you are hard locked until the appointed time
Also, AP grind did not hard lock me out of quest advancement. I have not resented the AP grind nearly as much as I have the Renown simply because of how easily it is acquired versus how much time it takes for the drip feed to roll out.
The game has now been separated the game into two modes: Stuff that takes barely any time and ultimately rewards little, and stuff that you have to roll the dice for ad nausea with no other route to compensate for it.
There is nothing casual friendly about this unless your idea of casual friendliness is logging in for reset and getting everything ticked off in an hour then logging off for another week.
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True. This raid die mentality is stronger now than in the past.
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I feel you. I am a casual player who took years to level my alts, only to log in one day to discover that I have to level my BM hunters four plus levels just to summon their spirit beast pets! My druid forgot how to fly (again) . It sucks.
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The only thing Iâll agree with is the impact of losing powers.
I can easily maintain two characters right now, 1 of them is my primary alt. I donât feel rushed or forced to do anything or fear on losing out on something. I mean, I hate TW so much on this DK she wonât be getting that 200 piece.
A lot of the omg-anti-casual!! crowd seems to suffer from a serious case of wanting their alts to be JUST as powerful as their mains without spending the same amount of time on them. If you did, they wouldnât be an alt anymore, right?
Fortunately with 1 hour CAN complete at least the renown quests, slowly creep up the ladder for the renown gear, and then a heroic takes maybe 20 minutes 1 day, another one another day, and yes, you will eventually get to where you want to be. You just wonât do it quickly. What do you expect with 1 hour of play time a day?
Okay, who hit you with the hematoma bat?
Because anyone who says that AP is better than renown has taken a few too many hits to the noggin. Did you all forget BFA launch and how disasterous the Azerite grind was? Sure, you didnât need AP to unlock quests, but those quests were just time-gated normally or behind rep so you couldnât do them immediately anyway.
So not only were you time-gated on quests, but if you didnât do the grind optimally and log on every single day to grind azerite, you fell behind, that meant that when you got azerite gear, you couldnât use all the powers on it, and depending on how long it was since you last played, it could be several weeks or months worth of AP grinding before you finally unlocked those azerite powers.
By comparison, thereâs no performance limiter attached to renown. None. Sure PvP ilvl upgrades beyond a certain point are locked, but you werenât really upgrading gear beyond that point until you unlocked the upgrades anyway. As for World Quest rewards, dungeon gear was always an option to progress that way so the world quest reward upgrade wasnât really limiting either.
I get folks want to shower Shadowlands with negativity, but can please stop lying and trying to obscufate just how bad BFA was when it came to many of its initial end-game aspects? Thanks.
Iâll let you in on a little secret, I never had a chance and never will.
I didnât care about player power in BFA becaus Iâm an LFR person first and foremost and casual play felt adequately rewarding and I didnât go pel-mel and still felt pretty alright.
I put the same effort into SL and end up feeling like I have to stop way too frequently with no more room to progress until another week later and locks away things I would LIKE to do but simply canât because the clock says so.
I never wanted for content to do in BFA. Now in SL I feel like I have no point in logging in until every bit of Renown is active and I can finally put my foot to the gas pedal and actually have some room to gallop.
There is a supremely disticnt difference in tone of how rogression feels when itâs the players falling short of a goal stopping them from progressing versus The thing keeping them from progress being the very makers of the game themselves with littel reason for them to have said limits. If doing the weekly renown things took all week, I might feel differently about them.
But they take an afternoon, and then I have to wait 6 days with nothing else to do. As a casual player.
People want to shower Shadowlands with negativity because it actively deserves the panning it is getting.
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The entire time Iâm telling you to do Naxx and here you are making irrelevant arguments about something that came out multiple phases ago⌠Youâre not solidifying your argument like you think you are. Youâre only proving just how ignorant you are⌠go check out Naxx content. Nathria is a progression raid. So you should compare it to other progression raid, not obsolete contentâŚ
Do you think itâs a good idea for me to say âOh but I can solo WotLK raids so retail is a joke?â gtfo lol
Just a list of Naxxramas consumes for progression. Greater Fire/Nature/Shadow/Frost Prot potion; all of which cost about 12-20g each on the AH. Healing pots, stack of 5 costing 10g each. Runecloth bandages (not optional for one boss) cost several gold per stack. x5 Mongoose elixir costs 60g. x5 Elixir of Giants cost about 15g, x5 Elixir of Agi costs around 15g. LIP costs about 2-5g each, as warrior youâre recommended to have around 10 for challenging shout combo. Restorative pot to remove disease/curse/etc costs about 20g per stack. Elemental Sharpening Stone costs around 60-100g per stack depending on AH prices. Elixir of Fortitude costs about 40g per stack. The potion that gives armor, not even the highest ranked one but the 2nd highest one costs about 50g per stack. Naxx was made with WB and consumes in mind. If youâre a really good guild, you can do it without prot pots but thatâs such a small fraction of the community. And this isnât even counting flasks, which sweatier guilds take and they are the ones who cleared Naxx 15/15 already while other guilds havenât. And 1 flask cost 480g. Thatâs over 1000g in consumes to prepare for Naxx. Granted you wonât use all of them but youâre using hundreds of golds of consumes. Now go farm 1000g and tell me how long it takes. And before telling me a lot of these consumes are optional, a lot of bosses in Naxx have a dps check mechanic so it really isnât especially for progression guilds/raids.
You have absolutely no idea what youâre talking about and youâre only showing just how clueless you are every reply you make⌠I wiped for 3 hours on council of blood and I used feast every time and consumes every time. You know how much gold I used? 30,000g. Which takes me 30 minutes to an hour to farm gold. You know how long it takes me to farm 1000g in classic? 2 weeks.
All these people telling OP to go play another game forget that itâs these casual playersâ subs that keeps the servers whirring.
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I think some folks are struggling with the idea that because thereâs something to do, casual players have a reason to do that something.
Power isnt everything of course. Some people may just like the escapism of running around ardenweald saving their furry friends, others may want the transmogs and mounts. This is all fine. Those people have a REASON to do the world content.
Its not really those players that are particularly dissatisfied though. Theyâre probably not even on the forums. Theyâre just happy, logging in, doing their mushroom quest, killing a rare, finding some treasure and finishing their calling/renown quests. Im sort of on the cusp of that play style, so i can completely get behind it. Why be angry or annoyed by the game? Just sing cute songs inside your head (âdolly and dot are my best friends!..â), whap some monsters, work towards your own objectives.
But they arent really a big population of the wow crowd. The players expressing dissatisfaction will very likely be more gear and power orientated (plus all the collection stuff). Theyâll be stuck in this no-mans-land where theyâre looking to hit their power cap outside LFG (which seems to be around 200 by my reckoning), but find the content available to them isnt quite doing it⌠or, more generously, is wasting their time. And what content is available to boost that, only realistically exists weekly with LFR, their torghast lego, and the world boss. Outside that, they log in, look at the map, shrug, maybe force themselves to run another calling, look at the 1k gold (or the conduit for a spec they never play - im looking at you outlaw!), and quietly seethe that theyve been âTRICKEDâ once again.
And so theyâre dissatisfied. Its hard to not feel a bit of sympathy for them.
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Ok Iâm just done. Iâm not even reading past your first point in that novel.
Naxx is the end of expansion raid. Itâs literally the last one. Itâs not the only âprogressionâ raid in classic, itâs the final end point. Nathria is the first raid of probably 3-4 in SL. Comparable to MC sort of I guess but not really because vanilla raids made no sense.
But you win. Classic is much more difficult. Youâve broken me with your weird arguments that seem to want to ignore facts about the game and I just donât care anymore.
Have a good day man.
lol you still think the argument is about difficulty and not a time sink right to the end. Youâve never read any comment from the beginning and were just arguing with yourself. donât even act so entitled. No end game content in BfA ever required as much farming for gold. Your arguments are all baseless
Really? When did I say that? All youâre doing is throwing around the world elitist and putting words in my mouth. If itâs elitist to think someone who puts in less time and effort should get less prestigious rewards, we clearly have different ideas on whatâs good for an MMO.
An hour a day gets you character progress and gear, to a point. Callings/world quests/heroic dungeons will get you to a point gear wise. A finite point. I do wonder why this sort of content should award the same kind of rewards as a mythic raid, or a high keystone?
Casual players donât have to play with that intent because they get several solid months of progression and engaging gameplay before they even level cap. Then they get another month or two of progression in acquiring pre-raid BiS, which is already powerful enough to crush most open world content. Then they have several months worth of ungated rep grinding in their pre-raid BiS. Then, finally, they are forced to look to raids for further progression.
But they donât even have to slog through all that unless they want to, because even in the first phase players were clearing MC at level 55. How? It turns out that the world buffs that guilds were regularly applying server-wide on a schedule were even more powerful than gear.
Like the current devs, youâre so tunneled on the raid being the one and only aspiration for casual players that you completely ignore their more compelling needs.
The problem with this game is that anything worth doing outside the raid is repetitive, gated, and unrewarding.
TLDR - It doesnât matter how easy it is for casuals to raid Naxx because they donât even want to do it, and there is plenty for them to do regardless.
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