WoW has always been very time consuming however it has gotten more so since Legion hit. When the pandemic is over and I am able to go back to work and do my other hobbies I probably will not play WoW or only stay subbed for RP.
I used it as an example to prove retail is more catered towards casuals and shouldnât stop. Then people started arguing about how Iâm wrong and Classic doesnât require that much time sink compared to Retail.
As the guy above has stated, once people in lockdown from the pandemic goes back to work, a huge portion of these subs will die out. Shadowlands has to stay relevant to casual players or they lose these subs permanently (which is the problem Classic is facing; thereâs no outlets to allow casual players to play in any satisfying means at all so people are just quitting/going to retail). I was playing 1 hour a day and ran out of things to do before the holiday seasons; hard capped on renown/weeklies/etc. But the community/culture of PUGs is what makes it difficult for casual players, not the game in itself. Shadowlands doesnât really require a lot of time sink for people to catch up and keep up.
This is my point.
Some of the items I stated like Drake Fang Talisman is required for a lot of tanks. It helps them optimize on tank sets which really matter for raids like Naxxramas. If you donât have suitable hit rate for example, youâre not raiding progression at all.
Again youâre doing nothing but proving youâre completely disconnected from classic yet giving these arguing points like you know it inside and out. Nevermind this is all ignoring the fact the point is Retail is more casual friendly than Classic is and I guarantee 99% of the WoW community will agree except the elitists who think being called casual is synonymous with derogatory slurs.
Nothing in classics was required for anyone, other than hitting max and running some dungeons, as nearly all the raids could be completed adequately without some computational determination of the âbestâ to squeeze out some tiny percentage of gain.
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Thereâs some level you can get to where the behind-the-scenes scalingâŚstops and you actually have power progression happening (or had happened).
Last few xpacs, that was achievable outside of raiding and/or high keys.
Havenât seen it yet in SL other than anecdotally watching a raid-geared druid convoke 20k+ pulling giant AoE packs and walking away having lost nearly zero HP.
While Iâm whaling on the one mob I pulled hoping that he doesnât have friends.
What are you talking about. If tanks had no hit rate, they canât hold threat and would wipe the raid; tanks shouldnât even sunder armor for threat anymore; just spec fury prot and BT/HS/revenge. People donât wait for the sunders like they used to in Vanilla. Again proving my point people making this argument are so out of touch with classic content right now.
For encounters in Naxx, tanks NEED specific gear set but instead of You need X or Y item, itâs you need X amount of crit, you need X amount of hit, you need X amount of mitigation.
If you have no idea what youâre talking about and basing the argument on âWell we did it back in vanilla some 15 years agoâ please just stop
I am both old and sat through Vanilla. The thing is in Vanilla you needed a guild unless you were just farming things. But rep grinds didnât suck nearly so bad as now. Most everything needed attunement so you were kept busy. Professions were more useful then and the best gear was crafted gear.
You really needed a guild and they had personalityâs , You got frustrated when you didnât get that needed item and everyone cheered when another got a coveted item.
The game itself has changed yes but mostly the people have changed.
The fun seems sucked out for me lately.
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Yay, I am with you. Between additional chores for characters to much more time needing to be invested in getting loot. I feel like I run out of time as a casual player.
Finally, if you like a spec too bad. Each class only has one viable spec while the rest are trash (ie Affliction for Warlock, Fire for mage, Marks for hunters, etc.). So go change covenant and re-gear as necessary to be the only viable spec. Shadow lands definitely feels very anti casual.
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These are all community behavior driven not driven by the game design. The only reason tanks need items is because dps have all been min maxed to death to have high threat.
Again, how exactly do you think we did this same content 15 years ago without all this theory crafting. We didnât even know what bis was then and everyone just wore whatever tier sets they could scrounge up no matter how bad it was.
Somehow tanks got by without this and still managed to tank naxx just fine.
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SL is such a struggle for me to stay playing. Iâm VERY disinterested and overall disappointed with the way the multiple and various systems are needed to acquire gear. Itâs all just too much.
At least in BFA at the start of the xpac, you basically knew to mostly focus on your neck and getting Azerite to boost its level up.
Hell⌠in SL Iâm so dang confused? Back when I was still attempting to figure out this convoluted mess, (Iâve now all but given on this atm) i spent a huge chuck of my very limited play time on freaking WoWhead. So annoying to have to constantly do that. Even after that, I honestly still donât what Iâm suppose to be doing or whatâs the most vital gearing objective.
Another gripe⌠M+ are WAY WAY harder than what they were in BFA!!! Itâs overturned for many casuals like myself. Plus gear hardly ever drops and not worth my time and frustration anymore. I got tired of them and constant wipes and gave up.
Nothing feels very rewarding or interesting to me in SL. I hardly log on anymore. PvP is so bursty for a casual itâs just a joke!
Iâm come to the conclusion that SL was all but created with the high end elitist raider in mind. Itâs not at all made for the casual player. Thatâs fine itâs best to just know that up front, this isnât a xpac for casuals. Itâs mostly made for elite raider (like Ion) by elite raider. To hell with the casual. Thatâs my feeling after a month of playing.
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Gearing is much much much much worse. Leveling speed has no quick catch up, unlike islands in BfA, Renown does really little for you unless you want to use the gear from the covenant questsâŚwhich is not good compared to any dungeon dropâŚ
You need to go to your bridge champ, because its not just me saying its casual unfriendly in the slightest.
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ahhh the same classic boomers who told us how much harder everything was back then yet all content got cleaned out day 1 by private server players who played the same game for 10 years of their lives.
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Yeah, itâs painful to read everything from âplay something elseâ as if the game would even survive without casual players (or thereâs anything comparable to play instead anyway), to âI get my chores done in half an hourâ as if thatâs not exactly the problem.
The game right now for a casual player is to log on, and do your chores. You might have a little bit of time left for something else, where you probably wonât get anything.
The entire issue is that it is extremely unrewarding to be a casual player right now; and thatâs not a one hour a day problem. I have more time than that to play, personally, but play casuallyâŚand while there is stuff to do there isnât anything rewarding to do, itâs pretty much do your chores and then maybe do them again on another character. You see it reflected in the hardcore players singing the praises of all that content being âoptionalâ, which just translates into them being happy they donât have to do any of it because it isnât rewarding. Well, that stuff is what casuals normally would be playing the game forâŚand itâs all âoptionalâ, which means thereâs not much of a reason to do anything at all.
Itâs not just a matter of play time. The game is unrewarding and does not value your time if you arenât a raider or pushing mythic+ keys in Shadowlands, regardless of whether you have more than an hour a day to play or not. As it is in Shadowlands, since I donât raid or do Mythics, from the point I hit 60 I pretty much stopped playing because the game was done with me more than I did because I was done with the game.
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Iâll throw my anecdotal hat in the ring. I cut my teeth on EQ Vanilla. My parents monitored my game time because itâs all I wanted to do and they felt that was bad for me. I got 2 hours a day to play whatever. 2 hours a day, to play frickinâ Everquest. Typically regarded as one of the least âcasualâ video games ever invented.
I plugged away at that game for months. Years. 2 hours at a time. My main finally dinged 50 around the time the gameâs fourth expansion came out. And I enjoyed all of it.
I am having a hard time sticking with Shadowlands. It ainât a difficulty/tedium slider problem, itâs a design problem.
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No hit rate is not community driven⌠Itâs a literal stat that dictates whether your attacks hit or not. And if youâre a tank with no suitable hit rate, you will never hold aggro. Thereâs a reason why sweaty guilds hard res Drake Fang Talisman and That Kiss of Death ir w,e its called to tanks
Seriously youâre delusional⌠and Iâm just about done with this circle jerk. You clearly have no idea what youâre talking about in regards to Classic. There is without question Classic requires way more of a time sink for virtually everything⌠and you can clear mythics/raids with 180 ilvl which is just gearing up in m0 or pvp casually. You donât need gear requirements for retail either. Iâm not sure what your argument is other than the fact that you got offended that Retail is catered more towards casuals. Everything about classic takes more time sink period. If youâre arguing that, youâre downright wrong. Seriously go try playing it right now. You can actually get boosted to lvl 60 within 2-3 days by a mage.
Debatable, seems like folks are easily able to get loot, but players are getting salty that theyâre not the ones getting it. Meanwhile the Great Vault gives you quite a lot of options to chose from as long as youâre doing some content over the course of the week.
Levelling speed is ridiculously quick. You can level from 50 to 60 in a day or two, depending on how you prefer to play.
The renown system is far better than the Azerite system from BFA. Thereâs no rush to get it, itâs easy to catch up to where everyone else is, and thereâs no feeling of being left behind if you do miss a few days or weeks of play.
Damn⌠I just realized that you are effectively saying Azerite was more casual friendly. Did you even play BFA?
So yeah, I stand by what I said. Go back under your bridge.
Ok. Sounds good. Your right, Classic is hard and requires time consuming grinds to beat the raids.
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Iâm a casual and Iâve been thoroughly enjoying it and more content than I did in BFA.
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The point is that the last expac that really required living WoW 24/7 was BC, at least for non-mythic raiders. WoW kept becoming more casual friendly so yes, itâs an abrupt and distinctly unwelcome change in Shadowlands. Between the raid-or-die loot, casual-unfriendliness and Pathfinder spitegate Daddy Blizz has driven me to unsub for the first time in 15 years. 
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