What is this place? It's like I stumbled into a forum for The Sims.
If looking thematically appropriate for the spec and class - go get the gear and wear it!
Looking the way you want, in a world with rules, may mean your clothes lack appropriate attributes for what you are doing. A wool suit in the rain won't keep you dry. Short pants don't keep you warm. A knit cap won't keep you cool. And in WoW, a thematic look may set you up to be an easy kill. That's how Azeroth works.
If you pull on a heavy armored cloak, why should you be able to make it look like a t-shirt? Gear has a look and it has attributes - just like in the real world.
None of this makes any sense. You can't make a cloak look like a t-shirt. Rain doesn't affect you in WoW.
There are some level 8-12 items that look better than level 45 items. In a fantasy world, there's nothing about mogging that breaks "immersion".
Flawed design aside, the impacts to the economy and group loot are enough to dumpster this idea.
T-mog items will be farmed by gold sellers, AH prices will increase, some players will opt to buy gold to compensate, and new players wonât be able to buy leveling gear.
I like the idea of learning BoP cosmetic skills, but I really like a dye system. A dye system, when properly implemented, provides a lot of customization without negatively impacting the community or immersion.
A poorly implemented system is a gold farmers dream.
T-mog items will be farmed by gold sellers, AH prices will increase, some players will opt to buy gold to compensate, and new players wonât be able to buy leveling gear.
I like the idea of learning BoP cosmetic skills, but I really like a dye system. A dye system, when properly implemented, provides a lot of customization without negatively impacting the community or immersion.
A poorly implemented system is a gold farmers dream.
04/20/2018 08:45 AMPosted by GrymhoofFlawed design aside, the impacts to the economy and group loot are enough to dumpster this idea.
This is why I'm against mog in Classic. But these other reasons for not having it are silly.
04/20/2018 08:44 AMPosted by StarmanThere are some level 8-12 items that look better than level 45 items.
If you prefer the look of the 8-12 items, then f-ing wear them! That is immersion. YOU always have CHOICES - but choices carry consequences.
04/20/2018 04:53 AMPosted by Eldevane04/18/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Overpowderedone of the only things that wouldn't change how the community interacts with one another
I'm not going to assume we're getting tons of UI updates and changes with classic, so with that in mind, in vanilla you could not see enemy health. You could download the MobHealth addon and it would estimate enemy health after you hit it at least once in order to calculate % to raw numbers based on damage you dealt, but that's it.
So transmog could impact PvP, when in vanilla judging a player by their max HP was not an option. Whether it's game breaking, I don't know, but it's definitely a change.
It also introduces a market that wasn't part of vanilla, which is farming and selling low level greens for exhorbitant prices. It impacts the server economy, and makes things more difficult for leveling lowbies that just want to fill in some gaps in their gear once in a while. Vanilla didn't have as many items as modern WoW. You're not likely to see pages and pages of level 20 gear. The alternatives to high-priced high-demand transmog gear won't be there.
Additionally, vanilla didn't have as many unique art assets as we have post-cataclysm. Blizz remade and added a lot of 1-60 art assets, probably specifically for their upcoming transmog idea. Every 10 levels there's a new set of art assets used on armor, including a few recolors available. This was not the case in vanilla. Transmog to avoid everybody looking the same may just result in everybody looking the same anyway when matching art assets in your armor type are limited.
I have issues with transmog. It's a very half-assed, poorly implemented wardrobe system almost every game with such as system has done better. Reasons mentioned above are part of the problem. Transmog as it is should not be implemented into classic. It would have to be changed and tweaked significantly, such as only allowing players to add items they personally looted and those pieces don't unlock on live WoW. This would avoid impacting the auction house gear market, and likely cut down on ninja looting for transmog spec.
That's more work than I think blizz wants to put into transmog.
But suffice to say transmog does impact the game and economy.
Funny thing about low level players buying greens is its a waste of gold.
Every guide I've ever read says to save for your mount. Questing gear is more than sufficient to level to 60.
So a noob starts out gets a green worth 100 gold because of tmog. What would a smart player do? Equip it to fill out those stats just to replace it in a few levels or sell it for the 100 gold to get their mount.
It doesn't ruin the economy even if it was implemented like that. It actually adds value and another way to make gold.
Look at the twink items such as feet of the lynx. You know what those can go for? Is the economy ruined because there is a demand for them? Nope. Do clothies roll on them? Yes they do. Even if there is a rogue or hunter in the group who could "use" them for a couple levels.
Why? Because they can pay for a mount...
Once more since some of you missed it. This does not have to be done like retail.
This can be made into a gold sink that effects nothing but that God awful made up PvP "advantage" argument. Which until it was brought in this forum I never even heard of.
You would think that would have been brought up in mop when it was implemented if it was this big game changer some claim it to be
04/20/2018 08:41 AMPosted by EaglesgiftIf looking thematically appropriate for the spec and class matters to you - go get the gear and wear it!
Do... do you even know how transmog works? You have to go get the gear to mog it.
04/20/2018 08:41 AMPosted by EaglesgiftA knit cap won't keep you cool. And in WoW, a thematic look may set you up to be an easy kill.
And all that chain mail hunters and shamans use would make them drown while swimming. Gameplay and story segregation. It's a thing.
04/20/2018 08:41 AMPosted by EaglesgiftOtherwise, best to wear the best gear you've got regardless of how it looks. That is immersion.
No, it isn't. Wearing that full set of plate in the badlands is not immersion. Wearing that short-sleeved cloth robe in Winterspring is not immersion. Tanking dungeons in a chainmail bra is not immersion.
Rain in wow doesn't hinder movement. Running around Dun Morogh in a t-shirt doesn't risk dying of exposure. Emerging from a lake in heavy armor doesn't bog you down due to being saturated with water until it dries.
I should probably clarify that I am not for adding transmog to vanilla. In an earlier reply to this topic I outlined why, you're free to read it if you want. I simply disagree that a cosmetic wardrobe system breaks immersion. As an avid RPer since BC I firmly disagree with that.
04/20/2018 08:49 AMPosted by EaglesgiftIf you prefer the look of the 8-12 items, then f-ing wear them! That is immersion. YOU always have CHOICES - but choices carry consequences.
You don't understand how transmog works.
04/20/2018 08:51 AMPosted by TezaYou would think that would have been brought up in mop when it was implemented if it was this big game changer some claim it to be
Transmog was introduced in cata. Long before that, the ability to view mob/player health was implemented into the stock UI and it was not an issue. Blizzard had acknowledged that after implementing mob health, players largely guaged another player on max health, not shoulder shape.
But that's moot, because vanilla did not allow you to see this.
04/20/2018 08:54 AMPosted by Eldevane04/20/2018 08:41 AMPosted by EaglesgiftIf looking thematically appropriate for the spec and class matters to you - go get the gear and wear it!
Do... do you even know how transmog works? You have to go get the gear to mog it.04/20/2018 08:41 AMPosted by EaglesgiftA knit cap won't keep you cool. And in WoW, a thematic look may set you up to be an easy kill.
And all that chain mail hunters and shamans use would make them drown while swimming. Gameplay and story segregation. It's a thing.04/20/2018 08:41 AMPosted by EaglesgiftOtherwise, best to wear the best gear you've got regardless of how it looks. That is immersion.
No, it isn't. Wearing that full set of plate in the badlands is not immersion. Wearing that short-sleeved cloth robe in Winterspring is not immersion. Tanking dungeons in a chainmail bra is not immersion.
Rain in wow doesn't hinder movement. Running around Dun Morogh in a t-shirt doesn't risk dying of exposure. Emerging from a lake in heavy armor doesn't bog you down due to being saturated with water until it dries.
I should probably clarify that I am not for adding transmog to vanilla. In an earlier reply to this topic I outlined why, you're free to read it if you want. I simply disagree that a cosmetic wardrobe system breaks immersion. As an avid RPer since BC I firmly disagree with that.
TRANSMOG BREAKS IMMERSION! Choices in WoW have consequences. The gear you equip provides the attributes you exhibit. If you want to change how you look - you must also accept that it will change your attributes. Choices have consequences. In Azeroth Vanilla there are very few strictly cosmetic choices. That's how it was, that's how it should be.
04/20/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Eldevane04/20/2018 08:51 AMPosted by TezaYou would think that would have been brought up in mop when it was implemented if it was this big game changer some claim it to be
Transmog was introduced in cata. Long before that, the ability to view mob/player health was implemented into the stock UI and it was not an issue. Blizzard had acknowledged that after implementing mob health, players largely guaged another player on max health, not shoulder shape.
But that's moot, because vanilla did not allow you to see this.
Oops my bad. Wrong expansion but still I never heard of that argument until now. Why wasn't it brought up back then?
04/20/2018 08:58 AMPosted by EaglesgiftTRANSMOG BREAKS IMMERSION! Choices in WoW have consequences. The gear you equip provides the attributes you exhibit. If you want to change how you look - you must also accept that it will change your attributes. Choices have consequences. In Azeroth Vanilla there are very few strictly cosmetic choices. That's how it was, that's how it should be.
Did you miss the part where I clearly repeated that I do not support adding transmog to vanilla? Or are you intentionally ignoring that so you can win a debate based on subjective differences of opinion on whether or not transmog is immersive?
Because you still seem to be under the impression that I want transmog in vanilla. I do not. I have stated that multiple times now.
Gameplay and story segregation. I gave multiple examples of it. You're free to ignore it, but all this "rules" crap is just that. It's gameplay. It's carrot on a stick to facilitate ongoing subscriptions and create the feeling of character growth.
I can easily counter with many examples of where a wardrobe system is more immersive. In fact, I already did several times. I will also add that there isn't much immersive about looking at another person and knowing at a glance that person has been to X super dangerous place and must be like Goku-level stronk over 9000. I would counter the air of mystery added by not being able to immediately size up an opponent is more immersive.
You can chill with the all caps. Go curl up and cry it out, then we can continue this when you're done reeing.
04/20/2018 08:58 AMPosted by Eaglesgift
TRANSMOG BREAKS IMMERSION! Choices in WoW have consequences. The gear you equip provides the attributes you exhibit. If you want to change how you look - you must also accept that it will change your attributes. Choices have consequences. In Azeroth Vanilla there are very few strictly cosmetic choices. That's how it was, that's how it should be.
In reality it only breaks your immersion. That other player may have their own ideas about immersion and their transmog reflects is.
Transmog is a magical process. It can bypass logic and make less powerful gear look more powerful or vice versa.
Transmog is not the same as taking your armor to the local blacksmith and asking him/her to Transmog it. That doesnât happen unless theyâre part wizard.
Just wanted to clear that up as some people are hung up on the process of making one item look like another.
In short, Transmog is not a physical process itâs magical.
Transmog is not the same as taking your armor to the local blacksmith and asking him/her to Transmog it. That doesnât happen unless theyâre part wizard.
Just wanted to clear that up as some people are hung up on the process of making one item look like another.
In short, Transmog is not a physical process itâs magical.
04/20/2018 09:11 AMPosted by GrymhoofTransmog is a magical process. It can bypass logic and make less powerful gear look more powerful or vice versa.
........................it's a fantasy game, not reality.
04/20/2018 09:04 AMPosted by Eldevanebut all this "rules" crap is just that. It's gameplay. It's carrot on a stick to facilitate ongoing subscriptions and create the feeling of character growth.
Here evidently is the problem - you acknowledge that the function rules established in Vanilla WoW facilitate in your word "gameplay." And yes, it does. WoW immersion involves gameplay. PVP combat, mob combat, and a myriad of small moving parts that define how our character works in the Azeroth world. There are plenty of games where cosmetics are far more important than in WoW. The games were constructed for it intentionally. Cosmetics are a primary part of that game play. Immersion in those games is supported by attention to cosmetics. In Vanilla cosmetics were far less important to the game. (It might be important to you). Immersion in WoW requires working within the constructs of the game - you conform to the Azeroth world, Azeroth doesn't conform to you.
I understand you don't want to change Vanilla. I understand that you feel transmog, generally, enhances immersion. I disagree. Immersion to me means learning to work within the structure of the world in which I am playing.
Obviously in the real world transmog is not a thing. Yet most of us are fully immersed.
04/20/2018 09:11 AMPosted by GrymhoofTransmog is a magical process. It can bypass logic and make less powerful gear look more powerful or vice versa.
Transmog is not the same as taking your armor to the local blacksmith and asking him/her to Transmog it. That doesnât happen unless theyâre part wizard.
Just wanted to clear that up as some people are hung up on the process of making one item look like another.
In short, Transmog is not a physical process itâs magical.
It is not a magical process that existed in Vanilla WoW. It should be seen as an absolute non-starter for Classic. As you know, in Vanilla WoW your gear had a look and it had attributes. Other games have transmog. Other games operate with other rules.
04/20/2018 08:32 AMPosted by Brockthorn04/20/2018 08:30 AMPosted by Anitharia...
You totally missed the point. I don't see how it could be anymore obvious.
I think the poster like to argue for the sake of arguing.
Says it's not plate because the tooltip says "cosmetic".
I think so too. It isn't anymore obvious then it already is.
04/20/2018 09:18 AMPosted by AnithariaI think so too. It isn't anymore obvious then it already is.
Yes, it's obvious it's not plate. It can't be any more clear than that.