Blizzards too slow.
I’ll have TWH:3 in my possession by that point.
That’s where the free marketplace of ideas comes in.
If someone professes to speak for me, I’ll listen to their argument, and if I disagree, then I’ll confront them. Similarly, if someone presents a good-faith and convincing argument as to why supporting a business model that encourages half-baked and abandoned expansions is a good thing, then I’ll amend my statements.
But until that time, I will stand by the argument that not supporting that model is a net good for the community, as it aligns with our best interests. Anyone who genuinely believes in the arguments they are making should also believe that they will produce good outcomes. If I thought my argument wasn’t in the best interest of the WoW community, then why would I be making it?
Okay, but do you not think this also works both ways here?..
If you tell them you’re okay with content not being good until the midpoint or end of the expansion, so they can do it all again on the next expansion for $40-$60, then you’re literally letting them know that producing mediocre expansions only to be better is a business model that you are okay supporting. (Not that these two business models were normalized already…)
By the by, this is just to illustrate a point by flipping it around. I don’t hold that position.
Then don’t speak for them. That’s sort of my point, you don’t know who’s best interests are really. Not trying to sound like a jerk here, it’s you only know your own here. 
That is correct.
Here’s the thing, Blizzard only did it once, and it’s WoD to Legion. While the context of that situation is different, being experimental 1 year mini expansion, rushed development and so on, the next expansion, Legion was highly praised then it’s ill fated predecessor. This isn’t to say that it will always results in a good thing, it’s just, going off on history here, i yet to see this sort of thing you’re talking about happen, but understand the concern regardless. Especially in that particular world, legion would definitionally been the exception.
I was going to throw this in my other comment, but you caught me during a mid edit, so… here’s the rest of my response to that comment above, and here’s the response to the current comment below.
I just don’t let anybody speak for me. I know it sounds unreasonable, but i would be put in an unfavorable position if i just let people speak for me without my proverbial “okay” for them to speak for me. Even if i agree with their stance, position, arguments and so on, doesn’t make it okay.
Well it’s honestly all subjective here on what you think what’s people’s best interests here. That’s also another reason why i don’t think you should speak for other people… as well it’s a bit inconsistent for you to say “if i disagree, i will confront them about it”… and yet at the same time, imply or even outright saying that “my argument is in the best interest of these people”, and not think people would likely do the same as you’ve said here?.. 
I just think it’s an odd proverbial hill to die on, Rorrand. 
I’m really confused how we’ve arrived at this point, Baridorielor. I’m not really sure how else I can point out that putting forward an argument on behalf of a group of people is quite literally the foundation of much of rhetoric and debate.
Let’s say you have a hundred people. Of those people, two become “leaders.” Now they argue amongst themselves about how best to form the government. One guy goes “I think democracy is in our best interest, here’s why;” and he puts forward what he thinks are the best arguments in favor of his position.
The other guy goes “nah, I think totalitarianism is in our best interest, here’s why;” and then he does the same. A lively debate ensues, and the facts on one side are weighed against the facts on the other.
But, in the end, what is being discussed is a series of prescriptions that impact a community of people; not just the personal tastes of person A and person B.
When I use the phrase “against our best interests,” it’s because my argument is based on demonstrable impacts on the WoW community. It’s on me to present arguments that are related to those impacts, which is why I bring up the issue of legitimizing harmful business practices.
It’s not a weird hill. It’s not a contradictory position. You’re taking issue with a fundamental part of how arguments are formulated, and I really think it might be because you’re putting way too much emotional weight on the words “it’s against our best interest.”
I’m not doing anything different compared to anyone else who ever advocated for changes (or non-changes) that impact groups of people beyond just one individual. If my argument is wrong, and it cannot, or should not, be applied in a general sense to the community, then that’s a discussion we can have.
But anyone who makes prescriptive statements that impact groups of people should believe that their positions are in the best interests of those people. The alternative would either be me advocating for positions that only benefit me personally or positions that harm all of us out of some twisted sadistic thrill for sadness.
Again, I’ll amend my position if the community presents a better argument that shows why my position is not what is best for the community. But since you’re not disagreeing with that position, I’m not entirely sure what we’re doing here. It feels like this line of thought really is all about the usage of four or five words.
I may be wrong but a 9.3 could actually exist.
The whole 2 year expansion cycle argument doesnt stand when considering all the internal issues the company had plus covid
Absolutely, that fact really passes by a lot of peoples’ head.
They really front loaded .2 into .1 and I imagine .3 will be into .2.
And
Very likely, and I have a feeling they’ll tease it during next years blizzconline.
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Because they’ll DEFINITELY get it right this time around, right OP?
It’ll just be the same disaster on a new “Mystery Island” with a different color palette. They need to bin 9.3 and spend the next year and a half figuring out how to progress the game without reusing the systems they’ve been using for the last 5 years.
And then for the expansion AFTER that one (11.0), they need to make a point not to just get into this same situation again by carrying over the 10.x stuff.
Who am I kidding though - I’m not sure there’s going to be an 11.0 patch yet.
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Honestly I feel at this point we are done in Shadowlands zone… Just slapping in another small zone like Korthia and adding another raid really isnt going to make the game feel new or exciting. So unless they are planning on sending us all back to Northrend with all updated zones, factions, rewards, etc… I feel like most players, even the dedicated ones will just end up raid logging for the time being, though many are just quiting wow all together. We have been struggling to keep guildmates in the game as they dont feel like there is enough to do to justify the sub cost.
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Haven’t touched the game in 2 weeks. Usually I’d play to say I will get my 15 a month used. CBA for that even. Early present for blizzard. 1.5 to 2 months of sub money not used looking like. I ain’t even server load for them lol. Free money, enjoy.
Across several saves and load orders I have a few interesting fallout 4 saves. Some go how cna you play an older sp game that doesn’t change.
So…has korthia changed in the past 2 weeks? No…didn’t think so. And my load orders in FO4…are interesting. Vanilla fo4? nope…
BUt you won’t have tier 6! I will get that tier 6 gear as gimme catch up in 9.2.5 when I return. Probably even better ilevel than that.
this I will give blizzard. they make nice catch up gear. I liked BFA’s when I did a 9.2.5 return off a break there. they know how to get that 6 month sub money from returners. Fun times at the end once the raid and dungeon is sealed.
Haha…you have the gear but you can’t get the achievement. I don’t even play for achievements in steam games lol.
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You are welcome to skip the rest of the expansion and find something better to do with your time, the rest of us will keep playing.
I am suspicious enough to picture you saying this while throwing your voice in a really high pitched, Mickey Mouse sound when someone suddenly takes off your mask to reveal- “ION!!!?”
“…and I would have gotten away with it, if it weren’t for you overgrown, meddling kids!”
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wow u probly gonna yank away the shadow land befope i get to do a covant arant ya . how biut give a chanse for CASUAL to get their firts ! elitsit post .
I think they will skip it. 9.2 comes out early next year and ride that out till 10.0 in the fall 2022
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This sounds like an excellent opertunity for the corrupted wish game.
Wish granted. We are back in Azeroth. Sylvanas tells us the plan, but nobody cares because the Jailer was just going to make a parallel universe away from everyone who was mean to him. Prince Anduin is still his thrall, but that’s okay, if we can ignore a giant sword in Azeroth’s butt, 1 npc going MIA doesn’t look like such a serious issue.
So now the horde and alliance are like, “Um what now? By the way, why is all this cataclysm stuff still going on all over the place?”
We decide to fix the world. But because Blizzard is busy making new systems on an impossible time schedule, instead we get some store mounts and another timewalking raid.
As we are doing Trial of the Crusader timewalking, with no trash because that ruins raids, catching balls dodging spikes and watching the folly of trifling gnomes, we look at WOTLK classic and laugh at their low polygons. They laugh at us being level 70.
On our off raid time we are doing our dailys in the argent tournament grounds, which now sells level appropriate tokens for alts. We have to do a lot of those though because the tokens are not slot specific, and instead pick your highest item level slot. They only take 50 champion’s seals to bring up 3 item levels.
So Blizzard decides that the new system of artifact weapon attachments to our cloak which activate our rings so we can change our soulbinds once per day is perfectly balanced and ready for release, but to give us time to prepare for the patch we get Ruby Sanctum timewalking. Because none of the gear has armor penetration on it, almost nobody bothers. Fortunately for those who stay, we also got another 27 mounts to farm.
The new content is the dark portal is going to spit out an army, but it is different this time because they are draeni. Everyone is waiting for the portal to open on their 27 different recolors of the same mount they spent the last month farming. The moment comes and the NPC spawns, but is instantly bugged because only one person can start their intro event at a time. This was found on the PTR but the team was busy deciding if the next recolored mount should be blue or green, and completely forgot to bugfix. Fortunately 2 hours later a hotfix is applied, and if you abandon the quest leave the zone log out and reinstall wow, it should be fixed. If not, please disable all addons and try again.
So turns out Belluar was right again. We are fighting the army of the light. Why they took this long and are attacking now, instead of in the past, because of past alternate universe Draenor we don’t know. Don’t think about it. Our first quest is to confront Yrel about this invasion, of course she has come to kick some orc butt, and despite being alliance and thinking this is a darn good idea, as a plot devise I am not given the choice to join her in putting Orgrimmar to the torch.
In my escape through some unlikely course of events, I come into possession of a valuable p̶a̶r̶a̶s̶i̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n new system item that allows me to escape. Horde somehow experience the same storyline and end up with another of these one of a kind p̶a̶r̶a̶s̶i̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n items in spite of being the target of this army.
We do a bunch of crap, the p̶a̶r̶a̶s̶i̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n new system is clearly unbalanced and probably unsalvageable like everyone knew it would be. Now people are mad because we want to know what happened with the Jailer and Anduin. The army of the light is an annoying theme and we can’t reconcile having lightforged draeni fighting them, but that is okay, we have 36 new mounts. They chose blue by the way.
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People asked the same in BfA, and what we got was SL. At this point I’m too scared to ask for new content, because going off their track record it will be disappointing at best.
We’ve had one half-decent expansion since Mists. I have no faith that even with a 2 year development they could produce something worth sticking around for.
I can’t believe you think this will solve problems. 
You are slow to see the pattern that is happening here.
Giving the expansion an extra year of dedicated dev time is “rushing”, now?
Remember Legion?
It’s not.
Not once i’ve or anybody else reasonable speak for other people unless they’ve been chosen to do that. Outside of trolling, malice or incompetence. And mainly because people will look down on you for that here, it’s not something people want, including you.
Except we are not leaders of a group, we are just individuals, only speaking for ourselves and nobody else.
It is if your taking an issue with people speaking for you if you disagree, but gladly speak for other people as much you like regardless if they don’t want you to speak for them. Infact, it’s hypocritical. Why is it okay for you to confront others speaking for you, but don’t mind speaking for others? You can’t really have it both ways.
That’s not how arguments are formulated at all. If you need to rely on “we need this because it’s in our best interests”, then your argument itself doesn’t stand on it’s on. It just seems bad faith to do that, and you’re starting to make me regret agreeing with you out of principle since this is the position you’re continuing to hold and fight for. 
if people wanted to make suggestions to improve the game, they should realize they are only speaking for themselves. My suggestion: Soul Wellness (an old thread), it’s about how i suggested an idea that i wanted in the game. Not once i’ve said “We need this” or “We want this”. It’s simply offering a suggestion of what i want.
Mate, can you not like pretend your position or methodology of argumentation is perfect, (and please don’t say “i didn’t say that”, i didn’t say you said that, i said you’re pretending) or at least void of harm that might be contruded the same as what you’ve described?.. I mean you even said this, so you think so too… At least i hope. Because otherwise it will make you come across as a hypocrite…
Just because somebody agrees with you, doesn’t mean you should speak for other people. Regardless if it’s in good faith. Let’s be honest, when you put a suggestion like that, it’s never about what we want, it’s about what you want.
I was really hoping you know this, but i guess i have to include the links that better explain on why speaking for others is not really a good thing as you subjectively think. Please read at your leisure.
And here’s this bit on this link here.
What are the implications or consequences of speaking for or about others? Is it always an act of advocacy, or is it ever an act of appropriation that silences those seeking to be seen and heard in the public sphere?
A number of problems might arise from being put in the position of speaking for others. You may not want to be taken to be speaking for anybody. You might not want to be the designated speaker for a group. Or, you might think you have a special obligation to speak for a group, if that group is one that is especially vulnerable, that is marginalized, and doesn’t have anyone else to speak for them.
In my dissertation, I provide an account of how people come to be in that role. When you speak for people even though you don’t share their identity or their experiences, you might believe there are special things you can do by virtue of not sharing their identity or experiences—political spaces into which you can give voice to the concerns of represented parties that might not otherwise have been given a hearing in those spaces. This, of course, is in tension with the concern that not being a member of the group may mean you are not well-situated to be the speaker for them. And so, I try to provide an account that is sensitive to tensions like those.
It strikes me, too, that this is a phenomenon that is arising for us in new and unanticipated ways, as speakers and audiences find one another on Twitter and other social media platforms though they are geographically dispersed. A contemporary example that I often discuss is Kim Kardashian West, who has an immense (if that is even adequate to describe it) social media presence, and who uses that platform in a number of ways, including to bring attention to the Armenian Genocide. In virtue of that work, she often gets uptake not just as an Armenian-American celebrity, but as a spokesperson for Armenian Americans.
We’re not going to agree on this, and this is getting wildly off topic, so we really should break here, which is what I wanted to do ages ago.
At this point, I feel like I could be pro-handwashing, and say “it is in our best interest to wash our hands before we eat,” and your counterargument would be that I can’t possibly understand the experience of pro-bacteria people and therefore I should not speak for them.
The article you linked isn’t even relevant to the discussion. It talks about someone who is out of touch with X community professing to speak on X community’s issues. Consequently, any argument they make would be bad because they are uninformed on the topic they are trying to engage with. As a WoW player, I’m not making arguments for any other community aside from WoW’s. Any one of us, you included, has the right to do that.
Now please, let’s put this to rest and go do something else with our time.