You don’t say 
I remember that range fairly well because it’s the range that made me switch roles because it was more stressful than fun as a healer.
0s now aren’t even comparable.
They seem fairly comparable to me. Previous 0s were easily soloable by this point. This feels like a 10 without affixes, now.
From a static point. Thats what people fail to understand. From a point of minimal gear
An m0 will feel like an old m10 from a point of normal dungeon, 554 gear.
An m0 will not feel like an m10 when you have heroic dungeon gear at 580 thats equivalent to the old m8-9s
Everyone thinks the jump is straight to a 10 with nothing to deter the scaling of 0 to 10. But when youre receiving m8 and m9 gear in the old m0 difficulty, the jump from an old m8 to an old m10 isnt the doom glood everyone is trying to portray
Problem is…
Because it sure as heck isn’t from Heroics.
The current difficulty for those of us who had our key bracket deleted:
N - H ---------- M0
My guild gave up in season 4 and most just quit until prelaunch. Now, they just sit in Delves and reminisce about when we used to have fun with lower key timers and affixes.
Delves are fine. But they do miss their low keys.
Not much to be done, though. It is what it is now.
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They are comparable for sure.
I ran a lot of 10s in S3 of DF trying to get used to everything before I jumped up, and the M0 of Grim Batol I ran an hour ago felt exactly the same.
I commend you in this thread when it’s been like 10v1 but I agree they need to do something
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The lack of affixes definitely makes a difference, but yeah as far as raw stats go it feels like they were honest about what they said.
I see tanks in m0’s with 600 item level still get chunked. I really don’t understand the point of m0’s right now when we have delves giving better gear and they’re easier
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It’s still far too easy.
I remember back in BFA they made all +10 keys and up 3 lvl higher, its been happening since BFA every xpack keys get harder and harder
If you try to tackle it undergeared, yes, as its supposed to. But if you do what youre supposed to do and get 580 ilvl before trying m0, the actual jump is from an m8 level to an m10 level, which is equivalent to an old m2 to m4.
Heroic and 580 ilvl to m0 and 593 ilvl is actually only about a 15% jump in difficulty once you take out the benefits of having full 580 ilvl gear before jumping into m0s
I mean… yes? This doesn’t contradict what Crud or Sendryn are saying. A previous 14-16 was the same as a previous 4-6 as well, as jump goes. Affixes notwithstanding.
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Also the tank changes they made have affected pugs greatly. When the tank is squishy it puts a lot of strain on the group
It does. Theyre acting like the jump is the full 10 levels of difficulty when its only truly 2
It’s terrible.
When you look at raids, LFR is a joke, Normal is pretty easy, heroic is very approachable for most people, and then Mythic is where it gets very difficult.
Yet M+ dungeons feel like torture pretty much right from the get go without any climb in difficulty. It’s just one shot nonsense everywhere and as you do higher keys, the enemies have more health.
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The jump from Heroic to M0 is higher than 2-4 in M+.
The new Heroic is like an old M0, the new M0 is like the old M10.
This is objective truth, there isn’t anything to argue here.
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I think gamers like to win, and if your not winning your gonna quit
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Trying to explain anything to him is like trying to explain algebra to a moth.
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Assuming you tackle m0 at the same point you tackle heroic, yes.
But you dont. You tackle heroic at 567. Then youre SUPPOSE to tackle m0 at 580 (which would have been the same results as an old m8)
So if you do what youre SUPPOSE to do, the jump is only 2 key levels of difficulty, roughly 15%
1.59 modifier at level 8
to
1.85 modifier at level 10
1.59 / 1.85 = 15%
Not getting to 580 before trying to get into m0 is cutting corners and increasing the difficulty.
Just like trying to do m10s whist only geared for 6s