I agree Slice and Dice just feels bad to use, and feeling forced to use it is wrong imo. It will be mandatory in Dragonflight again it seems.
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I didn’t say it doesn’t passively interact. It does passively interact.
It doesn’t actively interact. Pressing the button, aside from gaining the buff, is literally a dead GCD. It does nothing else, it has no impact except passively increasing attack speed and energy regeneration. Both of which are things that could be rolled into the class baseline.
But, again, I’ll reiterate, SnD is a concept wanting for iteration. It’s a mandatory usage ability with no immediate apparent effect, instead functioning entirely passively except you have to burn a finisher for it, as opposed to it having an immediate apparent effect of some sort, and interacting in a noteworthy/critical manner relative to your rotation.
I will say this though:
No. It’s a maintenance buff. It reminds me exactly of Inquisition from playing a Ret Pally. And, much like Retribution, it’s not a fun or interesting skill, nor is it some magical expression of skill like people seem to want to imply it is. It’s just a maintenance buff.
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I mean you can apply this to any class in the game, lots of “must-press” abilities that dont feel very good to press but at the same time expand the rotation and toolbelt of the spec. Where do you think streamlining rotations should stop? I see SnD in a similar way to dot classes having to juggle dots on a target except with rogues its a buff on yourself, it just adds a bit of extra dynamic to the rotation, albeit a not super interesting one.
Have a look at frost mages burst cooldown, pretty much a ranged SnD that doesnt change gameplay at all, yet its still a core part of the rotation
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Your argument is quite literally “other classes have this sort of ability so its ok”. First of all thats false. You prove it yourself with your last statement. SnD isnt a cooldown, its a button we currently press instead of an actual damage ability for a menial buff. We dont press it every minute and a half in preparation for big damage.
Even if other classes did have such an ability that doesnt make it ok. SnD is boring. Rupture for sin rogue is a better maintenance buff. It does damage. It replenishes energy. It feels good to press to the point where youll go out of your way to rupture dying mobs on boss fights for that energy despite having the actual ability do no damage. The interaction is quick, transparent, and efficient. None of those words describe SnD.
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If you’re talking about Icy Veins, Icy Veins is literally a self-Bloodlust cooldown.
That’s hardly comparable to attack speed (not haste, attack speed) and slight energy intake.
It adds no real dynamic to the rotation. It’s a timer you track that you barely notice exists except when you’re forced to press it.
DoTs are DoTs. You see them and they do damage.
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Imma disagree here, they’re almost the same thing. You press Rupture and it does damage as a dot on the target. You press SnD and it does damage by buffing your attack speed, and it increases your energy regen on two specs. Rupture interacts with Venomous Wounds on Assassin, and BtE is a crit chance buff. On Subtlety, though, Rupture doesn’t really do anything except damage, and I think that’s fine, just like SnD.
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As opposed to swing speed, which is entirely passive, and energy regen, which is also entirely passive.
I’m not seeing anything that couldn’t be baked into the spec with SnD. That, or it needs iteration. Either way, the way it works currently is irretrievably boring and not an expression of skill in any meaningful way. (Unless someone’s so new to the game/to the class that somehow managing uptime on SnD is difficult, in which case simpler class options exist.)
1 Like
Except blizzard actually added talents so that rupture does dps efficiently in DF. Can you actually think about the spec? As it stands rupture will be the ability used most in 2-4 target cleave as BP just doesnt do enough damage with so few targets. Rupture is now acceptable. SnD is still abysmal.
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Rupture has been acceptable since 2004, and SnD feels fine.
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One thought experiment: would it be better if it was a passive that proc’d off your first finisher and stayed up until combat dropped?
If so, then it’s kind of overstayed its welcome.
Like I said, I’d be happy to have a toy item or glyph that replicated the animation for no reason – and it to be gone. I think people are holding onto some love for it out of nostalgia.
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I think people are complaining for practically nothing, if its something you click and forget every once in a while why are you bothered by it?
A lot of things could be baseline but part of the fantasy of being the character is buffing yourself with abilities. You can make the claim all party buffs should just be perma-active passives of the class and always apply and you would have a valid point, but pressing battle shout or arcane intellect etc makes you feel like you are the one making everyone and yourself stronger - and there is something within that feeling that should be preserved.
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Maybe you should stop talking until you actually play a rogue. You keep comparing SnD to abilities that dont at all compare to it. We already explained to you what the problem is.
Like really. Can you think for a second? Those are not at all the same.
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Except SnD does not encompass anywhere near the same value or role as Battle Shout or Arcane Intellect, because you are not consistently refreshing either of those buffs in combat. You’re comparing an apple to a car here.
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It’s the principle of it. If it’s click and forget, why not bake into the spec. Otherwise make it more interesting. There are hundreds of ideas players have suggested. Blizzard just needs to stop being lazy about it.
Great idea. Make SnD an aura for the whole raid. Add in an armor reduction aura. Now you’ve solved two problems. You made SnD a meaningful choice and gave rogues a raid utility.
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I like SnD, it adds something to upkeep and feels good when I do it right. I feel like removing it would simplify the class a lot and make it a lot more boring.
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it gives 15% energy regeneration but I get what you were saying there man.
Yall aint play 8.3 sin rogue and it shows. Imagine juggling 3 different bleeds while trying to get as many envenoms in as possible. Now that was satisfying gameplay. No SnD required. Blizz just sucks at listening to rogue design feedback.
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Aside from not absolutely throwing CPs and time away by refreshing it too early, how does it feel good to maintain a maintenance buff?
How exactly is SnD this thing that makes Rogue complex as a class though? Rogue has had plenty of complexity in the past without SnD. It did just fine without it.
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If we streamline it enough you’ll end up just pressing combo builders and eviscerate finishers over and over until the boss dies, that sounds a lot worse to me
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Its not about streamlining. Stop being purposefully obtuse.
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