Because Blood Elves and Draenei came later than the original base races. When the models were updated for WoD, Blood Elves and Draenei came later than the rest.
To be fair the whole thing seems disingenuous. âEye color is not the sameâ is really more of a joke than an actual reasoning.
âIf you want to be a fair skinned elf the Horde is waitingâ sounds great on paper, but equivalence was kind of shot in the head when the Horde got purple skinned elves. We had them, and if the argument was that âskin toneâ is somehow more important than eye color then⌠well⌠why did the Horde get that?
We can talk about âstoryâ all we want, but letâs be honest:
Night Elves have original Highborne in their culture, teaching their mages. The Blood Elves were, in fact, incensed about this at the time. The Night Elves were letting Arcane back into their society even after they kicked out the High Elves.
Those Highborne never solved their addiction; they supplemented it with demons. They even slaughtered their own people to make sure it kept working. If thatâs not an even better fit for Nightborne I donât know what is. Itâs literally the transition from âMagic over my own peopleâ to âI must resistâ. Itâs precisely what the Blood Elves went through, except even more profane, and the Night Elves accepted them.
Letâs all be honest with each other for a moment. Just truly, wholesale, honest.
Blood Elves aligned themselves with the Horde. Thatâs one-and-done until the story truly radicalizes. Thatâs OK. The Blood Elves have been through a lot; theyâve made a lot of new friends and allies. Theyâve forged bonds with their allies through shared trials and suffering.
No oneâs looking to undo that.
Except⌠the lore has always supported the fact that some High Elves stayed with the Alliance. Many stayed with Dalaran in the Kirin Tor. Dalaran and the Kirin Tor even allied with the Alliance during the WoW story at one point. For a few fleeting moments all Azerothian High Elves were allied directly to the Alliance, not just a portion of them.
We can talk about whether it would hurt the game design, or harm the faction balance (given the imbalance Iâm inclined to currently argue anything would help and not hurt), butâŚ
Ion laughing at the Alliance? Thatâs not really funny. I mean, sure, to him it was funny. Except do you even know what that says about him? What it says about what he thinks of us? The fact that heâd wear it so openly, that heâd do so publicly? He has no respect for the Alliance in general, so why should we give a flying fox what he thinks?
The lore is clear. There are High Elves in the Alliance. At least as many as there were Void Elves. If Void Elves can reproduce then so can High Elves.
Letâs be adults and just admit that thereâs no valid lore reason High Elves canât be part of the Alliance. Ion just think itâs funny because all he cares about is money and the Horde. Dude should be a goblin, not a healer shaman. Heâs doing a lot of swindling and not a lot of healing.
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Not even close to all Azerothian high elves. I mean, aside from the High elves that call themselves Blood Elves those two group do not make up all the elves that arenât on board with calling themselves Blood Elves, youâve got groups like the pirates that hire horde to kill alliance troops that are harassing them as well.
I mean yeah, Iâll never deny that there are some of the elves in question who are allied with the Alliance. They just shouldnât be playable. I do kinda like the touch of âOnly people who agree with my point are being adults in this conversationâ though.
Also, I donât think heâs laughing at Alliance, I think itâs purely an explanation that long ago, apparently before wow launched, Blizzard made the decision that the playable high elves would go horde and that they donât plan on going back any further on that.
I should rephrase that, then, because it shouldnât have sounded like that. The point is that there are no lore reasons, when compared to current races, that the High Elves shouldnât be playable.
The real reason is faction identity, and maybe balance. Balance would be a joke because the Horde is already large enough to be superior by a fair margin. Identity wise thatâs really questionable. Ion points to the Pandaren as being problematic but⌠I donât actually see a problem there. Itâs not difficult to see a Pandaren for their faction, and I donât see how Pandaren, given their story, erode faction boundaries.
Unless weâre talking PvP, and even then only distance-visual inspection, Pandaren donât really change much. Neither would High Elves vs Blood Elves. In fact it could be an entire point of contention that could differentiate the factions on a deeper level.
I donât think that, as such, heâs laughing at the Alliance for the request. I think heâs laughing at the idea that they want them and they canât have them. Itâs laughable, to him, for some reason.
Itâs hard to find where it would be laughable and not be at the expense of thousands of people who want something. Blizzard might have made that decision, though Iâve never seen that reference so Iâd like it, but it doesnât change the fact that Blood Elves for the Horde was an absolute U-Turn for pretty much every player.
Either way, though, itâs not really important why he was laughing. The fact is that itâs a deeply important question for a lot of fans, and to be laughing during it is⌠well rude. It makes the whole situation a joke instead of a genuine response.
I think that, at least for this debate, we should agree to call them different. Not because their genealogy is different or their biology is different but because theyâre socially different.
Thatâs like saying that Germans and Russians are basically the same and itâs not worth differentiating. Theyâre the same species, but theyâve diverged. High Elves and Blood Elves might not have diverged that far but at the current trajectory they will, and their split was pretty hard lined on specific policies.
High Elves didnât want to consume magic from external sources like Kaelâthas taught. They didnât want to consume mana wyrms and elementals. They wanted to cure their addiction, not sate it. Thatâs pretty wholesale different; and they were outcasts because of it.
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None of the skins are shared with night elves.
If you want to argue âcolor spectrumâ then night elves provide a flesh tone. There you go.
Let us ignore the fact that night elves and nightborne look different from each other significantly.
On the other hand, void elves have the same unaltered model as blood elves. Asking for pale skin turns it into a LITERAL blood elf in appearance. So what is the purpose of void elves being voidy if you take away the one thing that makes them a void elf? It is disingenuous to compare the NIghtborne and say âwell they got purple!â.
And they got an altered model, glowy tattoos, etc etc.
I donât believe that is the case. I think he finds people who want high elves funny.
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I disagree, I feel that lorewise adding in a population of high elves big enough to support a playable race could have some nasty lore repercussions to the blood elves, changing the tone of their origin from desperate survivalism with a touch of darkness into something with no justification and thus cruelty to avoid giving up luxury to survive.
The semantics are always tricky, but thatâs not really important to my point. As I said, even leaving out the ones in Silvermoon, there are more High Elf groups than the ones you listed, and not all of them joined up with the Alliance at that point.
you know, have you actually considered that void elves are a much bigger barrier to playable âhighâ elves than blood elves ever were? well, playable alliance âhighâ elves
antis always have to qualify that statement by pointing out high elves are very much playable. as blood elves, a mere rename, on the horde
he wasnt laughing at the alliance imo, just the request. when he cracked the joke at the end that he could barely keep a straight face through, i think he just realized how ridiculous it is he actually had to hold the hands of pro helfs to explain to them why they got void corrrupted high elves, that blood elves are the legacy of the high elves and they are there for you already
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If the Void Elves were a large enough population, being a small research group, then there have to be enough High Elves. Itâs not as though Umbric bought thousands of elves with him. He was an outcast, a radical, supported only be a few who thought it could work.
Based on minimal lore numbers, there must have been at least ~1500 High Elves who abandoned the Blood Elves (or were outcast). This is almost certainly much higher than the Void Elven numbers.
If you take a population of 10, remove 1 to be X, and then later remove 1 to be Y, the second group Y is actually larger a removal than the first group X.
That probably didnât happen though. At least a thousand and a half, probably more, High Elves left. Umbric and his group appear to be fairly small overall, and a relatively secular group who operated in secrecy. The whole feel and example seems to be very small.
In fact Iâd argue that if even 1/3rd of the High Elves (letâs say 500) went to the Alliance instead of the Kirin Tor theyâd still outnumber the Void Elves at this particular moment.
Remember:
If the Blood Elves can breed so can the High Elves. The Blood Elves have had ~6 years, lore wise, since BC to recover their population. They havenât grown enough to change the population values. Neither side has. Except now theyâve apparently lost a few dozen to a few hundred to the Void. The number of High Elves only becomes more reasonable at that point, compared to overall population.
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I have absolutely considered that, yes. Which is why Void Elves are the worst thing that we could have possibly been given.
Iâd rather have not been given them. Itâs a veiled way of solving the issue. Give us half of what we want but then point out the facts; you canât give us another thalassian elf or they belong to the Alliance wholesale.
To which my argument becomes with the Devs.
I just donât care. I donât care about âthalassian elvesâ being Alliance vs Horde. They never were. The Silver Covenant was always alliance. The High Elves were originally alliance.
Theyâve swapped so many times at this point that they make Pandaren look like a parlor trick. Grow up, get a pair, and just make them neutral because theyâre ultimately neutral as a species and factionist as social groups.
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the SC did not exist prior to wrath. they are the new kids on the block
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The Silver Covenant was created to counter the Sunreavers. Both factions existed in Dalaran, neutrally, prior to this. Except Dalaran was a Human city, which was vaguely allied with the Alliance. One could argue that they were Alliance, all of them, until the Blood Elves joined the Horde. Then they unionized.
That doesnât mean they didnât have their own faction loyalties. They split evenly between faction lines; they were already on those lines ,even if it wasnât said.
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Blood Elves getting blue eyes doesnât mean all the High Elves existing with the Alliance suddenly stop existing. Thereâs still heaps of them, and we could still get them as a playable race, even if Belves get blue eyes.
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it has been stated on numerous occasions that the alliance high elves are a fraction of a fraction, too low in number to have a meaningful presence within the alliance. their status as an NPC factionâŚand the corresponding presence of the blood elves as a major horde race due to the blood elves possessing the vast majority of the population(which comes with owning the only high elven kingdom, quelâthalas). that is truthfully portraying the world according to the lore
attempting to pretend the alliance âhighâ elves are a major alliance race, that is not a reflection of the lore
The fact that Blizz hasnât done this shows they are going to add high elves to alliance eventually
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oh, how is ryker btw
This is irrelevant.
Kaelâthas took âthousandsâ of blood elves with him through the dark portal. This is bare minimum 2,000. You donât use multiples if itâs not multiples. Given that, and the fact that he only took blood elves not all remaining elves, weâre looking at at least ~1500 High Elves.
Considering just how widespread the Blood Elves are in Outlands, Iâd bet money that it wasnât just 2,000. Possibly more like 5-10,000. Thatâs not really relevant, but it would wildly inflate the number of High Elves.
Letâs pretend that 1500 High Elves left for the outside world. Well, how many go to Dalaran? 500? 1000? Hard to say, really. That even depends on the prior numbers being accurate.
Letâs say that just 300 go to Stormwind. Based on the intro and the lore involved, that seems to be more or less than equal to Void Elves. Thereâs no indication of more Void Elves being made; it was in fact described as a unique occurrence.
Iâm hard pressed to believe, given Void Elven numbers, that there are apparently not enough High Elves. If there are enough Void Elves there are enough High Elves.
Void Elves are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. âHigh Elves > Blood Elves > Researchers who survived > Void Elves who lived through the eventâ.
Or, in case you want to argue 100% survival:
âHigh Elves > Blood Elves > Void Elvesâ
Youâre telling me that 10% of Blood Elves became Void Elves? Thatâs how many High Elves were left at the time of their departure.
10% of the remaining High Elves left chose not to be Blood Elves. Thatâs â10% of High Elves remained, and they named themselves Blood Elves, but 10% of them chose to be High Elvesâ. 1% of the original race. Void Elves can not, for a number of reasons, be much different.
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Look, the only number that matters is the number Blizzard goes with, and that seems to be Void Elves number enough, High Elves are not enough.
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not getting into numbers backed by wishful thinking. all races are suffering losses, but the blood elves are able to keep going and have a substantial civilian populationâŚthey can keep going. alliance âhighâ elves ironically are the biggest victims of your logic. every loss they suffer is catastrophic to their continued existence as a separate group
for the record there is no SW population. the only source for that is the paper rpg, which is fanfiction now. alliance high elves can only be broken into two population centres. dalaran and theramore. theramore has been destroyed, most of the dalaran pop is neutral
lets pretend the SC arent neutral and tied up with dalaran, they have suffered losses through the northrend, isle of thunder against lei shen, and campaigns in legion. those are losses they cannot replace given their already depleted ranks. and if elisande is to be believed they are more interested in humans. and then every âhighâ elf that converts into a void elf is another loss. theyre pretty much done just like the lore implies
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Have to wonder how much of an inside joke the helfer âcommunityâ has become to the dev team.
And just how did this topic get so off topic? sheesh.
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Unlike alliance playable high elvesâŚwe havenât been told ânoâ.
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