Can we get a developer answer on this please?

+1 to this. Safespace does not belong in the World of Warcraft


Again, they already hotfixed these things. Campfires no longer kill people, etc.

I get that people like to use the #nochanges hash tag but it was ALREADY CHANGED. There have been many other changes from vanilla as well.

Which realistically is not a bad thing despite the prevalence and instistence of the hashtag which is moot. Vanilla had lots of flaws and bugs that, were it retail, most would want them to fix.

Just because a broken mechanic was broken in vanilla does not make broken things good. Vanilla was not some magical, infallible perfection that must remain sacrosanct.

We should avoid sweeping changes sure, but defending obvious bugs or mechanical limitations from being fixed is just silly.

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Let me walk you through this since google is obviously too hard for you:

  1. Blizzard is a business.
  2. Businesses make money by catering to the majority.
  3. Blizzard removed these features from the game.
  4. The majority did not want them.

If you still can’t connect the dots here and want to keep trading barbs, I can’t really help you.

Cydonia, You are only proving Petrolsk’s point. Now you are not only making assumptions about some players and purporting to speak for “most”, but you are also making assumptions about Blizzard’s “motivations” for these undocumented changes to the original game model.

But all of your assumptions are based solely on your biases. You assume that most people feel as you do. Yet most private servers are and were PvP. Even on private PvE servers, all the original risks and dangers attended. Nost had almost a million players – which was what prompted Blizzard to give serious consideration to launching a legacy server in the first place.

None of these players had a problem with original WoW – with all of its flaws and attributes. Had they, they wouldn’t have played on the servers.

So far, however, Blizzard’s apparent decisions (we still don’t know if these are bugs or just things that still need conversion from legion to classic) to remove/limit these abilities, has rendered the experience “unoriginal” and inauthentic and that is why many people, including myself, who pined for Vanilla are disappointed.

You may be happy about it. However, if Vanilla players continue to be disappointed, the Classic “experiment” will fail. Retail tourists won’t last past level 20 and there won’t be enough hard core vanilla players to sustain the servers. The relatively small percentage of players new to the “Classic” experience who will grow to like it won’t be enough.

Blizzard needs to clarify its position on these very important in-game issues.


You fail to see the forest through the trees. Had they stuck to original Vanilla principles. You wouldn’t have such low sub numbers on retail. The actual story is the majority of people don’t reply to forums, don’t respond to surveys, they just leave the game because it’s not fun anymore.

Whatever evidence you think you are relying on here to form your opinion is likely not actual evidence.

The reality is the “majority” as you put it, are what killed the game. They were the vocal minority really, the complainers, the squeaky wheel, which ruined the modern game.


That is a pretty big assumption. Where is your evidence to support them being the minority?

Do you honestly not think Blizzard has the hard data on what is and is not a majority? Do you think a business legally obligated to earn profit for their shareholders would just arbitrarilly act on the whims of a minority of paying customers?

Sorry, that is not the world we live in. Like it or not, the actions of the company itself make it pretty clear that most paying customers did not want the specific features you are talking about in the game, otherwise the for-profit business would not have just removed them on a lark.

I understand the frustration when things you like are removed and believe me, I am no champion of many of the changes that retail has seen over the years. In fact, I am against a lot of them.

But defending broken things just because they were in vanilla IS silly, and defending tools that are obviously abused for griefing just because some people can use them responsibly is equally silly.

I’ll simply ask you how many WoW accounts ever existed in it’s lifetime. 100 million? Where are they? They aren’t on here debating I can tell you that.

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But Blizzard has access to the subscription cancellation survey data, we don’t.

If we see a for-profit business taking action to change their service model, it is safe to assume they are doing it because the data they have which we don’t shows that more paying customers want those changes than don’t.

In business, profit trumps all other concerns. It is often sad, but it is also a fact of life.

Corporations have no conscience.

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I’m sure you’ve heard of the term whales. That’s what retail WoW caters to, the whales. But if you ask Blizzard, would you rather have 10 million concurrent players, or 10,000 whales.

They I believe would actually say 10 million subs. But here is the problem, they don’t hear from them. They will just one day up and cancel their sub, for whatever reason. But historically we can see that happens due to changes that happen in the game, and those are very much driven by player input and feedback.

That’s your vocal minority. They are changing the game, not the majority of players. The majority just play game because they are happy with the product until one day they find out, hey why did this change? Well crap that’s not fun anymore, I have better things to do.

What ends up happening is the numbers start leading down the “primrose path”. They say hey it’s profitable to have flying mount purchases, but not seeing this is actually killing the game at it’s core, and consequently costing them millions.

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Seriously he is going to throw a tantrum and quit if he can’t troll people lol this is so absurd

I really don’t think people like that will be missed by anyone…

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That is another assumption though. What evidence do you have to support retail being sustained by whales? None, because none of use have access to internal corporate financial data at Blizzard.

It does not seem likely however in a sub game. If this were yet another micro-transaction monetized game where you pay for cosmetics and gamble on loot boxes maybe, but the only cash shop stuff they have is a handful of $25 mounts and some server transfer/re-customization things.

To sustain a game on whales you need them regularly spending $1000+ EACH MONTH on gamble boxes or similar gimmicks, and it does not seem practical given the lack of things to spend real money on in WoW.

The business model just doesn’t support a whale-based economy. Even buying gold. There just aren’t enough gold sinks in-game to base a revenue model on it.

I have no problem saying it’s an assumption.

You are correct. Most people who become disenchanted with the game (or fail ever to become enchanted with it in the first place) just quit. No “goodbye” post. Just. . . gone!

Sometimes Blizzard asks departing players why they are leaving the game. Usually not. At this point, Blizzard knows why – the retail product is trash.

What made it trash? In my opinion it was:

  • removing unexpected threat from the world.
  • Raising my stats so high nothing actually posed a serious risk.
  • putting dungeon quests in dungeons instead of tying them to the end of a long overworld quest chain
  • putting flight paths EVERYWHERE.
  • changing fundamental class abilities
  • removing talent trees and replacing them with trash
  • oversimplifying the entire game
  • removing player options
  • removing loot options
  • replacing content with overworld trash pack annoyances and terrain hazards
  • removing any incentive to grind rep other than PF
  • gating content
  • loot pinatas and other free giveaways
  • attempting to remove player flight
  • Pathfinder

This is just a shortlist of issues I have with retail, but they’re important items.

It appears that I am not alone. Each of the six retail servers housing my 48 toons, are empty. CRZ cannot disguise this fact, because apart from cities and some small patches (mostly in expac zones) there aren’t enough players in any area of the world to make a small crowd.

Retail, with all of its “conveniences” and ease of life changes, eventually destroyed danger, risk, reward and community.

So, I must protest strongly, any fundamental changes such as those as have been discussed in this thread, that start us down the very slippery slope that brought us today’s retail WoW.

Classic should have been an authentic iteration of original Vanilla with all of its pimples, warts and wrinkles. This is what we asked for and I sincerely hope, once all the “gating” is done, that that is what we get.


Actually, both SWTOR and ESO do fine with optional subs. Both games furnish incentives for subs other than merely server access. I play both and find the worlds well populated with other players. Cash shops also, are optional.

It’s really not a case of what players do or do not want here. Classic is meant to be a museum with no changes from vanilla. If these things aren’t working as they did in vanilla, they should be changed to work how they did even if it annoys some people.

  1. I JUST saw a priest MC ppl off a boat yesterday.

  2. I have no experience with this at all, so idk.

  3. I was burned by a cooking fire someone else put down recently. (At least I think it was player set, it was in a weird spot with no NPCs.)

  4. You’ve always lost rep when killing innocent NPCs in original vanilla as far as I remember.

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No. You got a DHK for killing neutral NPCs. But honor system is not phased in yet!

I cannot sheep other mobs people have tagged. This was my only defense against an annoying faction member stealing my mobs such as an AoE mage who decided he wants to be greedy and not level the normal way. Even when I wanna be helpful, I can’t sheep a mob to save someone when they’re about to get mowed down by a mob. This daycare-tier pandering needs to stop.

(P.S. I’ve noticed while you’re on a flight, you have the option of clicking this Wrath-era vehicle button that will drop you off at the nearest flightmaster if you accidentally clicked the wrong flight location. Remove that, too.)

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Ohhh that’s right, I’m getting rep confused with Dishonor.

Blizzard has this listed in their “Not A Bug” thread. I never played a mage so I can’t confirm but it may have been changed to be that way in a later patch.

For the flight path button thing, blizzard did admit they added that even though it wasn’t in vanilla, saying their rationale for it was that you could do this in vanilla anyway by relogging.