Yeah, the spec is so randomly thrown together. It has no identity. It literally is just here is a bunch of crap and we will call it a spec. It isn’t a spec though it is a mess.
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yea rabble rabble rabble argue over identity instead of geting your ideas out leting your thoughts get buried in a argument creating huge chains of TLDR.
Survival fix suggestions down below.
my suggestion add more sustain heals and add in arcane shot over the use of Aspect of eagle and let it interact with alot of our proc tallents.
You literally just described how you play the current iteration of hunter. This is how it is designed to play. . .
They should do a momentum type talent where you get a damage boost when you disengage for x amount of time and then a haste increase when you harpoon back in for x amount of time or something. Would solve all the pve players crying about just standing in melee because there’s no reason to leave.
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I find myself disengaging and harpooning just for fun… Pop out, throw a grenade, jump back in. Just because.
You might have run up to throwing distance, which is not melee distance.
Anyway, you’re hunting boar , full-grown un-cut male wild pigs, and you are hunting them with a spear, and they want to charge. So, you run up on them, and throw away your weapon.
I think you may have left out some important details, regarding your method.
Which part? Throwing the grenades or his lion hunting companion?
Using real world examples is how you say… Dumb.
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It was r/l Toxi was describing! Stupid r/l, no, dumb like you say…
Not Hunters…
Yes, it is bad, but if MSV is made less squishey than Marks or BM, it will be just that much more that the Specs don’t have in common.
But there is more to it. Hunters are set up differently than most/all? the other Classes, regarding survivability.
Hunters were set up to survive not through self-healing and damage reductions, but through not getting hurt, by re-directing our aggro to our pets. (and kiting,cc,)
Keeping us alive is mainly what our pet was originally for…
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Hunter is just a catch-all term for the class. It means woodsy, tracking survivalist. Don’t read too much into it lol…
And EQ was already using ranger 
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kiting, and threat redirection doesn’t really help raid-wide damage
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Also doesn’t help our CC is skill and lag dependent. That melee classes have more CC and gap closers this Expansion than ever before. Making our ability just not take any damage harder and often puts the average hunter in place where they are spent and as soon as they get slowed or stunned they are dead having already dodged one near death situation most hunters can’t survive going thru it twice. Also Demon Hunter and Feral druids and rogues and warriors seem have no issues catching us and if i fought my Arms warrior alt in same ilvl gear id be dead in 30 seconds or less even if i pop everything and try to kite having execute become a charge is soooo strong along with a slow a loss of control 2 charges and a leap along with a damage boosting tether i think in my 411 ilvl gear i hit 80k on a hunter with my mortal wound then 20k to 40ks with executes so pretty sure i can almost kill a hunter in one burst unless im super lucky on crits then i absolutely will wreck.
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I left out the part where I stuck it in his eye, maybe 6 or 7 feet away from it. Didnt think I needed to include that but if you want more details, I can tell you what I did to before eating it.
usually we didn’t throw the spears, but in this case it was running at us so good technique was used
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I might need fix what i said so far in my last post did i say anything not factual? We Need buffs right? How would you buff hunter? Sorry trying ignore the argument and see if there is any input/fix you’d suggest from your prospective?
Id suggest buffing our single target damage a little more and not rely on tier set bonuses. Def fix the uselessness of hunter pets and bring back deterrence as our defensive cooldown. Also counter attack, I loved that move. I dont really see too much really wrong with hunters. Every time I see someone upset with their performance, I see someone in game out doing that complaint so feels to me alot of it is just bad players?
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I mean bad player might be harsh when even people who’s job to analyze the specs and builds pvp and pve guides know hunter has turned into one the hardest to play classes over the years as other classes become more competitive against our kits.
I used to be better at hunter ill say that much and i got an understanding of how the playstyle has evolved but to get good at it is another issue and survival is hardest to learn but still my favorite and BM is my go too when im struggling or just dont want to sweat and be a bit more mindless when i need grind but get annoyed that hunter pet can only really hold agro of one enemy because i healed my pet.
The thing about that is one guide on youtube will say how bad it it, another will praise it. It just comes down to people not listening to either party and just play for themselves. If you are good enough, you can do great things. Take Bicmex for example (top msv player in the world), everyone keeps saying how bad the spec is, its unplayable, blah blah blah. But this dude is insane with the spec and is one of if not the top pvp players in the world. It just comes down to being better than the average bad player, and the only way to do that is to play the spec and try it out. Thats something alot of complainers here dont actually do which is why I usually call them out (bepples). They harp on it but never touch it. You cant say you dont like beer if you never tried drinking it. Doesnt matter to me if its not being used in end game raiding, I dont play my specs off what echo or liquid are using to clear content. People shouldnt play like that. just my opinion anyways
it is very difficult to know how to play it. That spec anyways. But once you know what to do it is insanely fun. And its even more fun when its talents offer soooo many ways to play at the same level.
this is why tank pets should be changed I agree. Ferocity and cunning pets should just be solo tank mobs while the tenacity pets should be able to hold groups
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I pretty much agree with your buffs. Pets need be able tank more and better im not sure if it matters if its confined to tenacity pets but more of a quality of life improvment but deterrence was so much better then turtle made it scary to attack us when bubbled. Man that be scary as my Arms warrior to get my executes and mortal wounds tossed back at me…even now it sounds so broken but also sounds like something we may need. And honestly if our mitigation was purely 3 bubble abilities and Exileration even i think i could complain less XD. And counter attack sounds even more awsome as a counter from hunter forced into melee it sounds better then Artic Bola as an option.
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They were not the same. I’m not going to read the rest of the post when you start off with such a dishonest and reductionist premise.
Newsflash: you can make 3 unique ranged specs. Mage and Warlock did it. And Hunters did it before Legion.
Every time SV fans like to implicitly assume melee was the one and only way to make SV distinct. It’s not.
It’s manipulative because you’re going at length to create a false image for SV. You act like none of us know its toolkit. We know what SV is and we know most of its abilities aren’t enough. And we assure you it is not a ranged spec. A majority of your damage is from a melee ability, Mongoose Bite. You are always at a damage penalty for not being in melee.
In PvE you spend almost all (>90%) of your time in melee. Even in PvP you’re spending most of your time in melee. If you’re fighting a ranged class it’s as close to 100% as you can get. If you’re fighting a melee class, you’re kiting while sometimes going in melee for a damage burst i.e. the only time you’re mostly ranged. Otherwise you’re nearly always in melee.
It’s a melee spec and therefore not a sufficient replacement for ranged Survival, end of story. You are not going to successfully convince anyone here that it’s as good as ranged Survival.
The point of the manual page was to show that Blizzard absolutely intended the class to be the ranged weapon user, first and foremost. Because the village idiot was claiming that because of Talonclaw, a lore element conjured into existence after deciding to make SV melee, that they were open to a melee-only Hunter without a ranged weapon. We can argue whether it was right to rewrite the Hunter definition; you would be wrong to defend it but that’s a different discussion. But they absolutely rewrote the Hunter definition just for Survival. And they rewrote it to something much more dilute and ill-defined.
Evidently if a Hunter spec doesn’t fulfill those things most Hunters don’t want to play it.
Just like how every Rogue must have Stealth and every Mage must have spells, the ranged weapon is a critically important part of the class. A real one as fully capable as the one you start with at level 1.
Ah so as long as 2/3 of the class follows the class identity then that’s fine. I guess they can go ahead and make the last 1/3 a Healer or something and it doesn’t matter?
Specs are meant to build on the base class. That means 3/3 of them should be recognisably built on the core class identity. You don’t make Rogues without Stealth. You don’t make Hunters without ranged weapons.
That’s a critical distinction as much as you try to downplay it.
Plus, the only reason it uses that animation-only crossbow is because there’s literally no way to reconcile the spec with the core class toolkit if they didn’t have it. If Blizzard could get away with not having it at all, they would. They didn’t have it in Legion.
On that note, notice how the core class tree has NOTHING to do with Survival. There are recognisably BM and MM themed talents, but there’s nothing that says “Survival” besides Kill Command, but that was previously a BM-exclusive thing. People might say traps, but of course Survival for the first time in its history has absolutely no unique trapping benefits; that historic part of its identity is forgotten. So really it’s down to just Serpent Sting and Explosive Shot i.e. remnants of ranged Survival. It really drives home the point that SV is diverting from the core Hunter class, not building on it.
No, you’re really bad at it. Remember how much time and effort you spent trying to convince the rest of the forum that Double Tap was a good idea and how that worked out for y ou? You tend to enter this extreme cope mode and start trying to twist reality to make bad design seem good. Looks to me like a coping mechanism.
Shamans all start with a melee weapon, not a ranged weapon. They started off with a melee and ranged spec from the start of the game. Their class identity of fighting with elemental power lends itself well to both ranged and melee combat. There are many long-standing design elements at play since the very start of the game that make a melee/ranged split make sense for this class, and even then it requires careful balancing to keep the melee spec relevant. This isn’t something you can just copy-paste onto the Hunter class and expect to work out just fine.
This is not just a handful of people on the forums. Dislike for SV is a lot more broad than you pretend.
Every delusional SV fan has insisted since Legion the spec is just a few tweaks and buffs away from greatness. It isn’t. Its issues are fundamental.
Calling for ranged SV is the most constructive thing anyone can do for the spec; far more constructive than continually wasting time and effort on the ongoing dumpster fire that is melee SV. There’s a time for iterative design, and then there’s a time for pulling the plug.
So when you look at an SV Hunter damage breakdown and like 50% of the damage is Mongoose Bite alone, do you still refuse to call it a melee spec?
P.S. If it’s mostly already ranged than cutting the remaining few melee elements and making it fully ranged would be hardly a big change and no problem at all. But watch how upon hearing that you’ll all switch to rabid defence mode and insist that the melee elements are essential.
Lol? What a ridiculous thing to say. The intent was for Paladins to be tanking from the very start and that never changed. They just screwed up the class design so much that they weren’t effective tanks before BC.
They panicked and removed Crusader Strike at the last second because they thought they would get attacked for Crusader Strike copying Heroic Strike, thus invalidating all their Paladin beta testing and failing to adequately replace it until BC. This meant Paladins had no reliable way to generate threat other than taking Consecration from the Holy Tree, which actually worked to some extent until they panicked and changed it so you couldn’t do that anymore. Paladins basically had the same problem then that Hunters have now, where there’s’ clearly no developer advocate for the class so instead of fixing problems they just get drip-fed minor changes (including nerfs) by uninterested class developers terrified of actually making the class good.
This doesn’t change the fact that they did intend Paladins to be able to tank every step of the way. The fact that you have to resort to such an ill-fitting “parallel” shows that there are no parallels for what they did to SV.
If it’s doing fine from a performance perspective (which seems to be what you’re focusing on here) yet it’s still so chronically unpopular then there are evidently deeper problems with the spec.
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As do hunters now boy-o
Nonsensical.
Every single spec in the game requires “careful balancing” to remain “relevant”. Interesting choice of words, lol.
You don’t play shaman. You probably have no idea about the outcry elemental (ranged spec) had been making over the course of the beta, etc, to remain relevant.
Oh wow an opinionated preach video that you have already linked in many other threads. Shocker
How about I link a few videos like marcelian online taking SV as their main during shadowlands?
I “fundamentally” disagree with that entire statement. You wouldn’t know what issues current SV has, or what design features are inherently good, because you don’t play it.
Just more whining.
No, its not actually, it is just pointless whining.
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