You just wrote 3000 words which could be summed up as “SV isn’t played as much as most other specs so I must be right”…
All of your arguments hinge on SV being a more niche spec. We all know it’s niche. In fact, that’s a major part of the appeal for many of us.
You’re entire existence and self-worth relies on there being enough other people who don’t play SV.
That’s kind of sad, my man. You might need to find a new hobby.
even blizzard thought they were the same. Accept it
and you do what exactly?
this is actually true, hunters didnt have that though
I mean you use melee to describe it now which is impossible to confuse it with MM at this point sooooo guess it is.
adn you do what exactly?
you dont
you dont
mostly is
on single target yes
depending on the build you are using
no
def a big no
LOL no
This is the only accurate thing you have said this month
Its more of a situational spec and can do both depending on whats needed. Thought you knew the kit?
Its better. I can actually tell what spec im playing now
dont forget warriors start off with a shield and arms and fury dont use them. stupid blizzard, fail class design. 0/10.
it was melee in vanilla. You cant avoid those talent trees no matter what you larp, twist, whine, or log on a lvl 10 alt to agree with your own comment.
you had range mostly for like 4 expansions. The rest of the time it was melee. Know your class.
‘‘I am god king bepples and never wrong, nope not once, not even once’’ pfft lmfao
they didnt
they didnt
lmfao oh preach. They guy who doesnt even know if he likes a game or not. SHOULD TOTALLY LISTEN TO HIM SINCE HES A YOUTUBER AND EDITS VIDEOS. LMFAO
too much to continue mocking you here, you go on mini rants everytime someone disagrees with you. You must spend hundreds on new keyboards from all the finger sweat you drip and tears leaking out when someone knows more about a subject than you.
I make fun of Bepples more than anyone else here, and I will say this about the little troll. He is absolutely resilient. He wakes up every day to get mocked online and like a little engine that could, he keeps going with it. Thats inspirational af.
It was a ranged dps in vanilla, it was hardly fleshed out but it still played as a ranged dps. None of the melee damage talents were strong enough to ever play as a melee dps, the ranged damage simply scaled better.
Also I don’t know why you keep trying to pretend that Ghorak is Bepples’ alt. Ghorak is a EU player and uses the alt to interact with the US forums. Blizzard rarely interacts with the EU forums.
lol no it wasnt. You got most of your range from using extra talents from the MM tree. You got scatter shot and wyren sting. maybe one other but most of the talents were aimed for melee
It could be used for melee and be effective especially in pvp. I killed McConnell the streamer as melee hunter. You can ask him about that. The range was only good from using MM talents, and I wouldnt say it was good since MM was usually the go too for True shot aura. so
Its a meme at this point. They say the exact same thing, they like each other post when its not getting enough traction, They even talk exactly the same, just enough to be noticed. The day bepples “blocked me” Ghorak stopped talking aswell. Its pretty much spot on. Also I have an EU account as well so not hard to do
Did you understand the line you quoted?
Shamans started with a melee and ranged spec from the start of the game i.e. 2004 launch. Despite intense revisionism from people who should know better, Hunters did not. They did not have a melee spec until Legion. Shamans and Druids had a 12 year headstart on building a sensible framework for having melee and ranged in the same class and they have class identities that facilitate it much better and more sensibly than Hunters ever could.
If we’re talking about modern WoW, you start at level 1 with a ranged weapon using ranged abilities. If you pick SV at level 10, you nonsensically throw away the ranged weapon and you literally have to buy a spear off the vendor. Try it; there’s actually a weapon vendor at the door as you leave from doing the last intro quest just in case the new player picks Survival (which, to be fair, is rare).
It’s harder to do when its melee v.s. ranged in the same class. Usually the melee spec is either not buffed enough and isn’t a desirable pick, or buff it so much that the ranged style is invalidated. Because it’s not enough for a melee and ranged spec to have roughly the same output. That means a largely useless melee spec. You can see that happening with SV. The melee spec needs to be tuned beyond the ranged spec just enough to make it relevant but not enough to invalidate the ranged spec, and it’s often different audiences for the melee and ranged spec. So it’s a messy situation even for Druids and Shamans where it’s been the case since the start and it was utter madness to introduce that situation to a 3rd class (even worse because it’s 2 ranged DPS and 1 melee DPS this time).
You should expose yourself to a broader variety of Hunter opinions than just the TSL Survival channel. It’s not just a handful of people on the forums that dislike melee Survival. It’s actually a very common attitude. I linked the Preach one because he’s one of the biggest WoW influencers that talks about Hunter deisgn, and he’s actually tried to give melee SV a fair chance in the past so it’s not like he unconditionally hates it. It’s far from the only one, and I’ve found a similar disdain towards melee SV from a lot of ingame Hunters especially in Classic.
Melee SV fans love to pretend that it’s actually a widely beloved spec and only a few grumpy forum posters hate it, but that’s the product of SV echo chambers.
You know I’ve tried it out on test realms and alts, and I keep up to date with its guides. I get this “you don’t know because you don’t play it” crap a lot, yet I sure don’t hear any specific details of incorrect things I’ve said about the spec that are a result of not playing enough of it.
Wasting countless effort hours on a dead spec is a lot worse than just forum posting.
Yes I’m aware that SV is a big hit with the “obnoxious contrarian” crowd, but as a matter of fact most of that post was about how SV doesn’t fit the identity of the class well. The only mention of its unpopularity was one sentence right at the end. So you’re not actually responding to my posts but rather what you assume I’m posting.
Just a warning: Toxiktraktor doesn’t have much of a sincere opinion on anything at all. He’ll say whatever he thinks is convenient to him at the moment. He still has videos up on his youtube channel explaining exactly what you said: Survival wasn’t about being melee in Classic because it only had a couple situational damage abilities that weren’t frequently available. I’ve pressed him on this and the best he can come up with is saying that those videos are just satire and obvious jokes… never mind the fact that they’re actually accurate descriptions and video demonstrations of how Survival played in Classic.
That’s why he’s the only forum user here I have on ignore. For just about everyone else here I can say that they at least believe the things they say. Those beliefs can be stupid as hell at times but they’re at least sincere. With Toxiktraktor they’re evidently not and he just updated his stance not based on what’s true but rather what helps melee SV’s image.
As for the alt thing: it’s not the first time someone here’s accused me of posting on alts. People have also said Gromgarr is my alt. One thing that never gets posted is actual proof.
Yep, that’s why I specifically chose the word: now.
Living in the past is just ignorance and a failure to adapt.
Also, you say “level 10” like that means anything at all when specialisations don’t start until level 10 and classes don’t function in any capacity until well beyond that level.
Its kind of a moot point because it is so irrelevant and an incredibly odd shield to die on
Subjective.
Every spec is yo-yo’d regardless of internal class or externally, as to not invalidate another playstyle.
Astonishingly bad take. Thats also subjective, and shows incredible bias.
Same output =/= mechanical design or gameplay preference, all that does is make other options more attractive to more people instead of gravitating to the highest performer.
Absolute nonsense. If all fights were patchwerk fights with 0 mechanics, everything could be tuned within a percentile.
Your relevance argument only applies to heavy movement fights which have historically favoured ranged, and if all fights are balanced around heavy movement, then melee uptime needs to naturally be higher upfront damage for that reason.
There is no “X needs to be tuned higher”, that is why there are always complaints about tuning regardless of playstyle.
Weird, I’ve seen more people ingame say they like SV, or are willing to give it a shot, than I’ve seen complete whiny attitudes about what the spec is.
That’s because you don’t talk about anything currently spec related, mechanically related, or bearing any relevance to its performance as current.
Its just complaint after complaint.
Its easy to watch a guide, and I sure as hell don’t believe, with your attitude, that you play the spec in any capacity.
I mained enhance in real vanilla. Played Ret Paladin in real TBC. Those were widely considered “dead specs”, yet I still somehow managed to perform with those specs on my old account in the old raids, enough to keep being brought back every week to prog.
Another subjective statement. If someone enjoys it, it isn’t wasted effort now, is it? I’ve already begun gearing my SV hunter. See ya in a few weeks or so when I close in on your own ilvl, as SV.
hunters was able to use melee weapons since launch. I know it, you know it, anyone who wasnt a cata baby knows it
Vanilla*
my arms warrior started with a shield
I did this with my arms warrior
druids say hello
rip feral i guess
larp intensified
You should play the spec yourself instead of listening to people you only agree with
it is. I just asked trade chat and my guild and nobody agreed with you. One person said they miss going pew pew but being a mad bomb is tight.
And asmongold has a much bigger influence and bigger audience and he likes what they did to the class. so who honestly gives a s***?
you mean other people who live in the past?
you live in your own echo chamber. The fact you battle so many people who disagree with you but still act like they dont exist is the biggest cope I have ever seen outside of your denial Blizzard made a decision you dont like as if anything you think or say matters to the masses.
you have literally said you never tried it at least a hundred times including on social media. You flop too much magikarp. Just take an L
because you dont. I dont pretend to be a mechanic because I watched a youtube video.
you did till you blocked me because you got nervous and ratio’ed.
Idk bra, im having fun. your not. one of these things are not like the other
so now you think they are all meant to be played the same. got it
im responding to you. as he is
I do. You just dont like me disagreeing with you because you want to be the loudest person on an internet forum.
I dont, but you sure do. Im def not the only one here who notices this trait with you though
Gag channel. I also said spell hunter was viable in classic which is nonsense but you really believed it even when told a hundred times it was a joke video. This is what happens when you have too many chromosomes
the channel description literally says satire
I literally made a video saying how to play but never showed you how it works. Kinda like a joke. Cant do a how too without showing the how too
its because I brought up your discord and you immediately blocked me and got all fidgety.
Guess I play a spec I love and enjoy but dont believe I do? LOGIC AT ITS BEST!
So literally anything you say ever
My stance on the spec has never deviated from what I have been straight up about. You know this because we have discussed it. I think you are honestly just upset my old wow channel has more subs than your wow channel and I didnt even make real content there. Its kinda obvious the amount of soy you radiate when you continuously bring it up when you know everything your saying is BS because you know blocking me means I cant out right dispute you. Its a tactic people do when they are cowardly.
Its kinda obvious when you type exactly the same and speak the same and always agree with yourself with in 5 minutes of you typing anything no matter the hour.
You are the poster child for biggest cry baby soy boy in the game. No wonder you like Preach and think hes some kind of god because he has a youtube channel
This thread has run its course. Locking.
He is well aware that I’m not Bepples’ alt. If you go back through his post history(he has a history across multiple character names/races, such as, most recently Toxiktraktor, along with Metroid before then), you can see how he has repeatedly acknowledged that fact in several ways, including openly aditting to deliberately trolling us(and yes, he used the word “us”, and sometimes “you and bepples…”), because how we do/say/are XYZ…
In short, as usual, when it comes to matters of RSV vs MSV, just assume that he has no interest in having a sincere discussion. He’s even pointed out multiple times, boasted about changing his name to Toxik(c) just for that very purpose.
For the record:
I’d like to have one of those too.
But all we hear is nonsense about “identity” and “how things used to be” and “but nobody plays it!!!” And occasionally “even [insert irrelevant streamer] doesn’t like it.”
Scroll up and reread this conversation. There is almost ZERO mention of actual abilities and rotations and what can be changed or improved.
You talk about wanting an honest discussion and then do whatever you can to prevent that, sending us all in logical circles with your fake, dishonest arguments.
I could make a thread today titled “Let’s talk about improving Wildfire Infusions” and it wouldn’t make it 10 posts before y’all derailed the whole thing, railing against msv and any idiot who might actually enjoy it.
So don’t talk to us about honesty. Y’all are they least honest folks on these forums. Either play BM or MM or a different class or a different game… But get a life. It’s been 6 years. Move on.
Please, let us discuss the current spec in peace. Thanks!
The only thing I’ve done is respond to arguments put forward by YOU, and other players who’ve brought the subject of class design, and our history. My literal first reply in this topic was me responding to YOUR question about what we would consider a fun spec, based on other posters arguments about our historical design.
That’s not me derailing anything…
As for your statement of how I’m using fake/dishonest arguments, show me one.
I’m aware and agree.
Sometimes I wonder, does Blizz think I can re-direct damage to my pet? Instead of aggro? In Instances involving party-wide unavoidable AoE damage, and PvP, where mis-direct has little effect, I’d like to have it.
There have been no arguments. There’s has only been opinions. This entire thread, and every thread that even mentions SV, is completely devoid of logic and arguments.
People are talking about boar hunting in real life, and arbitrarily choosing a pet and 40 yard range as the MUST HAVES for the hunter class, and the fabricated lore of some spear we used 6 years ago.
Not a single word had been spoken about what is working and not working with the spec. YOU and your like have made it impossible to discuss SV on the forums. In another thread, someone was trying to discuss what might be missing from the spec, bepples was there to quip “a bow” … It never ends.
I refuse to even distinguish MSV or RSV… The class is just SV. Y’all need to deal with that. I’m done even engaging with the conversation. I’m not sure why y’all aren’t banned when you hijack threads. It’s a part-time job for you. Maybe I’m unfairly lumping you in with bepples, but dear God … I haven’t played or really thought about this game since mid bfa and y’all are still complaining about the redesign.
That’s really sad.
Anyways, for anyone living in the present day willing to discuss the spec… I’m all ears, whether we agree or disagree. I’m done with the folks living in the past, pathetically unable to move on like scorned lovers. And I would advise everyone else to just never engage with these losers either. Let them howl at the wind.
Good luck! I’mma go throw some grenades and harpoon some baddies with my raptor named Pip and my triceratops named Pocket! Like the Greeks used to do.
Nice attempt at deflection.
I will repeat what I said in the previous reply:
Here was my answer btw:
If that’s not an honest and sincere answer to YOUR question, why don’t you tell us what you consider that to be…
(Btw, your implications of how ‘honest and sincere’ equates to only talking about current SV abilities, and what to change with them, is a fallacy.)
You want MM but dots but also burst. SUPER COOL AND UNIQUE. WOW.
Can we move on then?
I mean the secret to moving on is dont engage in the ones asking for a full rework thats at least 1-2 years of work at Blizzards pace. There a whole room disagreeing with Ranged rework thats fine i say we keep the melee too but what could hunters ask for that would be like a surgical fix to Hunter tree for all hunters and what could we bring to SV to make it easier stronger and more fun i love it when skills interact with each other triggering procs.
Id like to see Survival of Fittest upgraded to a 2.5 min spell that does 40% reduction but also has a talent bellow it that will turn that reduction into reflected damage towards enemies. Instead having to feed multiple talent points into it for it to be good.
Buff natural mending to be 6-8 focus per second reduced of Exhilaration.
And buff Wilderness medicine to heal hunter 6% per point every time mend pet is used so at max that be a 12% heal trickle over 10 sec so a 2.4% heal ever 2 sec.
Give turtle a heal like 30% over 8 sec duration or buff the 30% reduces damage more
As for SV hunter id like a talent that gives us more bombs for a ranged aoe playstyle. First thing let Arcane shot be castable with 2h weapon as baseline. Replace Aspect of an eagle with Arcane infusion and each cast of Arcane shot in has chance to reset KC. And upgrade quickshot talent to not only give the 30% chance for a free arcane shot but since its on the bomb side the tree give arcane shot a buff where it reduces bomb CD by 1 sec by each arcane shot you cast. And id add arcane shot to vipers venom.
And in pvp arcane shot with KC resets will be ideal for kiteing and hunter will not have to worry about a 15 sec window that can be CCd but our amazing single target damage will be in our melee still giving alot value to charging in with spearhead and doing large burst of damage but a flexible ranged on demand kit will be nicer then 15sec window.
Then for single target damage id double down on melee change spearhead Charge into essentially warriors colossus smash charge remove all the separate buff and just give us a flat buff to 25% damage for 10 sec and a 20% chance for KC to reset. And keep deadly duo as the same. And tune all our single target abilities to do more damage then Arcane shot and be up there in numbers for raids and mythic.
Edit.
Also id love see coordinated assault turned into a heroic leap type spell instead of a charge so it can be used for mobility to get away and gap closer.
Because youre probably the same person. AND tbf I said I only did it because of how dumb you are. BUT I always been transparent about what I actually think.
I have had real discussions about it. Just you (two) dont actually want to have one and instead just want to complain and get mad at other people for enjoying the spec. Iv stated multiple times Id have a discussion with bepples but he wants to avoid and slander because hes(you) a coward
I changed my name to honor my old friend who actually was a druid named toxiktraktor first of all so idfk what this is about
They dont want a real discussion. Trust me I have tried a multitude of times to get bepples to talk to me and film our interactions for proof but he just dodges. Its clown world
would be nice for once
your entire response about me
stick around long enough you will realize your not
your doing it again and proving his point to a T
Please on anything from 2016 prior
For the record, I believe this was one of the earliest times he referenced his own name for this purpose, and he’s done it multiple times since(I have no doubt he’ll go back to saying he was just meme’ing, as he usually does):