I wouldn’t mind bringing presences back, but in different ways maybe, give each a defensive and offensive benefit
Frost gives an armor and crit increase
Unholy gives a leech and haste increase
Blood gives a healing % and mastery increase
Could be interesting for sure - but it would apply to all 3 specs
huh? could you please elaborate. Frost pres gives armor?
Just theorycrafting.
If they come back in their old state, cool, or they could come back in a new state.
well people been trying to think of ways to get the cata versions back but updated for awhile now
from cata
Frost Presence
Strengthens you with the presence of Frost, increasing damage by 10% and increasing Runic Power generation by 10%. Only one Presence may be active at a time, and assuming a new Presence will consume any stored Runic Power.
improved frost pres rank 2
Increases your bonus damage while in Frost Presence by an additional 5%. In addition, while in Blood Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 4% increased Runic Power generation from Frost Presence.
since we got a better thing with runic regen with all the RP we spend
it could grant razerice to all of our attacks while improved has a higher km and rime rate
it also make runic emp refresh all runes on cd
Unholy pres
You are infused with unholy fury, increasing attack speed and rune regeneration by 10%, and movement speed by 15%, and reducing the global cooldown on your abilities by 500.1 sec. Only one Presence may be active at a time, and assuming a new Presence will consume any stored Runic Power.
Improved Unholy Presence Rank 2
Grants you an additional 5% haste while in Unholy Presence. In addition, while in Blood Presence or Frost Presence, you retain 15% increased movement speed from Unholy Presence.
Blood Presence
You assume the presence of Blood, increasing Stamina by 8%, armor contribution from cloth, leather, mail and plate items by 55%, and reducing damage taken by 8%. Increases threat generated. Only one Presence may be active at a time, and assuming a new Presence will consume any stored Runic Power.
Improved Blood Presence Rank 2
Increases your rune regeneration by 20% and reduces the chance that you will be critically hit by melee attacks while in Blood Presence by 6%. In addition, while in Frost Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 4% damage reduction from Blood Presence.
improved presences rank 1 could also kill 50% of stored RP and rank 2 doesnt letting you switch freely
Yeah and these were awesome.
If we can get them back im game.
Sometimes simpler is better was the idea I was going for
So Frost would use bloor or frost depending on stats and unholy and blood would use unholy.
Just goes to show however you try to design them there is going to be a clear winner in choice.
You can’t just willy nilly pick talents so why try to bring back presences that is a pick the best one and forget about it.
Yooo chad maneuver. I like the icecap suggestion of reducing FWF cd too.
This kinda thing is always an issue. The game is so min-maxed that when it comes to talents there will always be a best option which means the other options don’t get a play. In a perfect world you would have 3 equally balanced talents per row but history proves that this rarely going to happen. Aiming for 3 situational talents it more achievable (one ST, one Aoe/cleave, and maybe a flexible passive).
But because presences can be swapped on the fly its a little more flexible with how they play out…
Having the option to drop some damage for a bunch of defense, self sustain, or movement speed can be very useful for harder content. For most of the population playing average content, you wouldn’t leave the damage presence ever, but for PVP and for mythic content where often survival>dmg I could see it being super useful. Movement speed in raids is also a massive issue for DKs. So often you can get caught out with mechanics because you just cant move around as fast as other classes, and when its mythic level and its not forgiving at all, you just die.
Presences are the one thing that actually make trading off damage for other utility actually playable. If its talents or rune wep enchant which are more set in stone, then people will always pick the higher damage output option.
I see Icecap as an ignored talent right now. I loved the icecap build in Nyalotha with Frostwhelps Indignation. It was a fun, new playstyle. I think this change would incentivize people to use the talent more frequently.
I too love the FwF CD reduction idea, and would love to see Icecap get some love to make it a more viable option. But I would also want to see some balance to 2h brought to it. Right now its very favored to DW.
but that’s a part of a bigger discussion in balancing dw/2h.
Honest question - would baseline Glacial advance fix this at all, given that razorice would not need to be runeforged anymore?
Remember, you lost RP when you swapped presences. The only times you would swap was when there was an “oh crap the tank died” and even then you werent meant to tank as a dps so it was just a matter of time before the wipe came.
Just look at Kriss’ suggestions. Increases damage and runic power generation by 10%, changing presence consumes stored RP.
Attack speed and rune regen by 10%, movement speed by 15% and reducing GCD by .5 (which is what im guessing they are trying to say for a 1 sec GCD) rp lost at changing presences.
8% stam, increased armor contribution by 55%, damage reduced by 8%, threat generation increased (dont know why thats there when Blood has it baked in unless they are trying to make it so Frost and Unholy can tank again without any active mitigation) rp lost at changing presences.
I dont know where the rank 2 would come into play unless its just a learned passive for each respective spec, which would make Frost for Frost, Unholy for Unholy and Blood for Blood, not actually accomplishing a whole lot.
But even with the Leth suggestions there are clear winners for specs so its not really accomplishing much. If you need the defensives outside of what DK already has I would say you are in content you shouldnt be, or something else is seriously going wrong. People have been doing well with the kit at hand.
There could be some things that could be improved upon, but do you know how many times doing Legion timewalking I seen people get hit by Piercing Shards? The tanks either didnt know what it was and to face the mob away from the group, or people were just standing in front of them like “this healer sucks!” No, you suck for standing in front of an aoe cone that hits people that arent the tank like a massive truck that jack knifed on black ice.
Presences arent needed… at all.
Both DW and 2h can use Glacial, so unless its given exclusively to 2h, its not fixing anything. They both would get RI passively and DW would get a different runeforge or just a normal enchant.
People dont want to fix the disparity between the weapons, they want 2h to be the best because they loath DW for some reason. Ive dealt with it since BFA. You want to balance DW and 2h get rid of MotFW as it is, make it allow 2h to apply RI instead of giving Obliterate damage. Either just increase Obliterate damage across the board for both weapons that MotFW was providing or put it in a talent, and keep the increased KM proc chance that it gives for 2h.
That wont address things that just happen passively based on how the weapons work like DW crit mechanics which are better for Icecap, Runic Attenuation, Frozen Pulse and some other stuff.
Its a DW spec with 2h band-aids all over it.
rank 2 would be at a later level really
i think you are wrong that they arent need anymore
yes our talents need much love n fixing
i want to feel like a hero class again and right now i dont
if we for get about presences coming back as buttons but bake blood pres into vet and bring the armor back and toughness it would go a way for survivability
as for going faster wrath walk can go die face down in a ditch and corpse walk from wince it came
unly pres and wod DA was the best thing cuz we could keep up with the group and go fast in times of need no channled BS no getting stuck on an even surfaces. just switch to it and vrrrooom
Giving 2h a second rune enchant would make a massive difference. As it stands GA giving 1 stack every 6 secs probably needs to be buffed for 2h, but then also for BoS you cant waste RP for GA which means you will lose your stacks. Im sure there is a cleaver way they could fix this though. I think we will see the direct benefits of having GA baseline with the new tier set bonus, but maybe its not enough or too much for 2h. Time will tell.
Im not suggesting to make presences exactly as they were, or how they were described above. But the idea of trading damage for utility or survivability on the fly is a good idea. Yes currently you can clear all content with the kit we have, but it doesn’t mean things cant be improved to encourage more creative gameplay.
This is exactly why it needs to be looked at. It shouldn’t be a DW spec…it should be a DW or 2H spec and the performance between them is marginal. Right now 2H can only play Oblit competitively. If we can get 2h BoS/Icecap to less than 2-3% from the DW counterpart then I think we would be in a good place.
Later level in what way? Because the improved presences were for that spec. Improved Frost Presence was for the frost spec, Improved Blood was for Blood and Improved Unholy was for unholy. They were deep in the tree. So with that being the case its not actually an option it just gives even more incentive to stay in that presence.
Get the hero class thing out of your head. Hero class doesnt mean what you think it does. Its a hero class because its based on a hero unit in the WC rts games.
Are people really having that much trouble with survivability? Seriously? Or do people just not want to worry about their health at all, their positioning and so on?
Ive yet to be so far behind in any group that im not there when combat starts.
so you got presences at lvl 8 or so then improved rank 1 at 20 and rank 2 at 40 or something like that
Why should it be either or? It didnt work when it was trying to be an either or in the past so I dont know why any rational person would choose to repeat the same thing over again. The same complaints were there throughout this expansion as all the other ones.
Improved Presences were talents in the their respective specialization tree. When they changed the talent trees, it became a passive and those passives forced presences.
They did this because people were using presence that corresponded with the spec. Frost would use Frost even though it was the tank role and you had people blaming tanks for being bad when they were dps builds with increased threat regen.
Presences are not needed at all.