Calia will ruin the Forsaken

Lore Story Forum
42

I have a question for you. Well, a few questions.

Do you think Metzen et al., when they started the game in 2004, believed that the office of warchief was concentrating too much power in one person? Do you think they left notes saying “The Horde’s form of government is wrong. Eventually, bad warchiefs will take over and the Horde will realize that they need to replace them with a council”?

If you do think they believed from the start that the system of government was bad/wrong/doomed to failure, do you think they did a good job of showing this in the game? If not, why not? If so, what are examples from Vanilla that demonstrate this?

Who is “they” in this case?

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43

I don’t know. I missed out on all the original WoW planning meetings and any since and I haven’t had a chance to interview Metzen or anyone else on the matter.

And does it matter?

Metzen isn’t in charge of where the story’s going anymore. He willfully turned it over to new folks and let them handle it and do what they want with it.

Considering Metzen’s still voicing Thrall, it doesn’t seem like he has a problem with how the new team’s handling the story.

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44

That’s why I asked for speculation. Obviously, none of us know for sure.

It matters because a lot of these discussions present getting rid of the title of warchief as inevitable.

You mean he’d quit in disgust if he didn’t like what they were doing? I think there are many shades of feeling in between “I am happy with how you folks are handling the story” and “I can’t stand to be a part of this anymore.”

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45

If I were to speculate I’d guess that “Council” wasn’t on the list of things they wanted to do with Horde government during WoW’s early days.

Obviously it’s true that if Blizzard wanted to keep going with one warchief after another instead of a council they could have done so easily. As stated, they are calling the shots on the story so they’re not required to follow historical proclivities that dictatorship’s inevitably fail. If they want to abolish the council angle in a couple of expacs, rise up a new warchief, and have the Horde start another war, then they will.

If you want to know what he thinks about it, feel free to try and get in contact with him and pose the question.

46

Many people were not Forsaken until they were slain and reanimated. Just look at how many Gilnean refugees, presumably still loyal to Gilneas, were slain in Silverpine and immediately joined the Forsaken. Then look at the Alliance-loyal farmers and laborers in the Plaguelands that underwent the same thing.

Length of time being undead and the kind of person you were before dying are not considerations for joining the Forsaken.

Not sure we know anything like that yet. We barely see her throughout BfA. She’s been in hiding, and we don’t know how she’s dealt with being undead.

Forsaken are almost predominantly Humans, High Elves, and a smattering of Dwarf and Gnome. Undead Nights Elves fought for the Forsaken on Darkshore.

ALL Alliance races, formerly.

Presumably she’s only hiding with the Alliance because she made herself a political enemy of Sylvanas Windrunner, who I don’t think was ever aware that she’d been reanimated. Revealing that she was not only not dead, but now also undead, she posed an even greater threat to Sylvanas’ leadership than before.

The Forsaken are about conquering death and carving out their own place int he world. They’re melancholy because being undead is kind of awful but there are Light-practicing Forsaken. Light-wielding Forsaken have been canon for a long time, and no one ever said they were less Forsaken than other Forsaken. How much Light is too much Light?

Also she’s a Discipline priest in Legion.

In WOW’s cosmology, the realm of undeath is still proximal to void and shadow. Even if she was pulled from the brink via the Holy Light, she’s not truly LIghtforged, and it’s likely she’s carrying some taint of shadow that is inherent to undeath that she will have to balance.

Bolvar isn’t technically undead either. He got lit up by dragon flames that sealed his fate. No one’s questioning whether he’s not enough “suffer well points” to lead the death knights of the Ebon Blade.

After she decided to claim the throne, the first to embrace her were other Forsaken. Even Anduin was caught off guard.

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47

I don’t feel the need to go that far. I just don’t think the fact that he’s still voicing Thrall is strong evidence one way or the other.

Well, who else was there to embrace her at the time?

48

At the time? No one.

It wasn’t something she revealed to Anduin and I don’t think he ever states outright whether or not he would have supported the claim. It’s politically sticky.

Just because Calia assumed that she could harbor them in Alliance territory and implicate them as supporting her claim doesn’t mean she’d actually be allowed to do so.

Anduin may very well have been forced to implicate the Alliance in the land dispute over Lordaeron, but that’s not the same as embracing it the way the Forsaken deserters did.

49

You know that’s not true. She was before her dead chilling with the Alliance.
And you know Calia is only hurting the story.

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50

And Alonsus Faol was hanging with the Forsaken, but no one is saying that he’s a Horde character.

Calia being a living human means she can navigate through Stormwind the way that her counterpart couldn’t. They sent Foal to Undercity to handle logistics for the Gathering the same way Calia did in Stormwind.

They had to smuggle Faol so he could yell at Turalyon and Greymane. They couldn’t have sent her to the Undercity if they wanted to.

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51

Not really or not since years ago. He is neutral since at least Legion and his relationship to the Horde was very different. Also no one from the Horde offered to make him king over Stormwind and lend him troops or anything like that.
That’s a non point.

I know and of course not. It’s clear she would have been murdered. Her action in Arathi was also pretty stupid.

I don’t know why the team let Golden get away with a light Zombie that will only hurt the Forsaken narrative.

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52

This right here shows exactly why you don’t understand why Calia is good for the forsaken.

Being permanently sad is not a desirable state to be in. Calia wants to lift the Forsaken out of that and help them improve, while you want them to continue to suffer so they stay edgy.

Calia isn’t bad for the Forsaken. People like you are.

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53

This is something I want to address, as I see the argument that Calia went to the Gathering to try and get the Forsaken to defect.

All Calia was doing was talking to Elsie Benton. It was Parqual, his daughter, and the Felstones that began making moves to Stromgarde Keep. Parqual even told her to “be ready”. I will grant it was her mistake was to suddenly believe this was the Light’s plan and tried to actively get the Forsaken to join her once everything started going to hell in a hand basket, but she started doing that after a few Forsaken moved to defect on their own and after the Dark Rangers started to fly over the field.

So no, Calia didn’t go there to try and get a bunch of Forsaken to defect, they were trying to do so on their own. She just tried to take advantage of it after getting a bit “inspired” by their bravery.

EDIT: Just to point out in case people get the point of this post twisted. I don’t think what she did was right. It was incredibly stupid and just got herself killed lol. What I am saying was every member of the Desolate Council there was already dead again as soon Parqual and the Felstones began making moves towards Stromgarde.

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No this only shows why you shouldn’t talk about a race you don’t like. Stay far away from it.

And the edgelord comment comming from A void elf really?

No it’s people like you and Golden. The Forsaken were never meant to be Anduin 2.0. That’s not what their fans signed up for 17 years ago.

Your ego should stay way back on this.

Only thanks to Claias stupidity.

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55

I’m not the one acting like crippling depression is a positive trait that should be preserved.

You realize there’s a grey area between “crippling self loathing and/or violent sociopathy” and “Anduin 2.0” right?

It’s possible for the Forsaken to move to a better state of mind without becoming Anduin.

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I see you act like that all the time. If you think that’s what’s going on then you don’t even understand anything.
Even in Before the Storm, new bad things about some Forsaken were explained. Like rotting brains for some, making them aggressive. It’s about overcoming and functioning those things despite all draw backs.

Not with Calia no.

As I said, back off this topic. You are the entirely wrong person to tell Forsaken fans what they need or want.

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I would wager the majority of the people playing this game were not playing this game 17 years ago. Or, in significant numbers, born. Zoomers dominate most of my pugs.

Almost all the content creators for WoW atm started playing in Cata or WoD.

This is part of the problem. Old heads need to let go of their preconceived Nostalgia Goggles version of what each race should be.

The game will change as decades pass.

But also this is a product of Azerothian Necromancy. If only we were going to the land of True Necromancy and had someone who was undead without these problems to maybe combine the two magics.

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58

Please take your advice and kindly shove it in your posterior. I’m not leaving just because you don’t want to hear what I have to say. This is a public forum, and I have every right to speak my mind here.

The Forsaken are in a bad spot and have been since their creation, and were intentionally kept there by Sylvanas because it made them easier to control.

They need someone like Calia who can help lift them out of that rather than continue to abuse them.

If Forsaken players don’t like that, then forsaken players need to grow up. Edge for the sake of edge hasn’t been cool since the 90s, and keeping a whole race of people down because you want to be emo is messed up.

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59

Except no because I actually checked the Before the Storm.

Calia and Elsie are just talking and doing nothing coup related at all until Parqual and fam decides now is the time to defect.

As stated earlier, Calia’s only mistake at the Gathering was listening to Parqual and deciding the time is now and revealing herself.

Parqual was the one who decided the time is now after noticing Calia there, and somehow didn’t think Sylvanas wouldn’t sic dark rangers on defectors.

I will admit one could make the argument Calia shouldn’t have been there at all, but I’d counter that by simply pointing out that as the former-ish Princess of Lordaeron it was only natural that she would want to at least be there to see her people again in a place they’d be less likely to kill her outright. But then again who would think a random historian would decide “Defection is a good idea” and end with a bunch of people getting killed.

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60

Even if this were the case, a lot still are here from back in the day (myself included) and still others from way further than only some expansions. You can’t simply ignore those people.

Yes the current lore team is a joke.

The two last years is not really nostalgia. People with a hostile attitude towards a race and an entire player base like you are the problem.

Ywan. More destruction of what people like and find interesting. No one says there can’t be development or new things. But human struggle is a very interesting topic for many people and core aspect of the Frosaken.
No matter in which direction it will go, Calia is only harmfull.

No one said you can’t. You should stay back from the Forsaken, becasue you obviously don’t care about their fans, the race and are hostile towards them. Don’t even try to act like anything else.

That’s a lie, but go on.

Becasue Calia didn’t lead to a bunch of them getting killed. Because Calia surly “won’t” use the Forsaken for her selfish goals. Because Calia won’t totally be a tool for the light. Something else you want to add?

No, you are the one that needs to grow up and you better learn fast.

I have to book. You know that’s wrong.

You even wrote it.

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61

Except it’s not, because I’m reading the passage now lol.

Calia and Vellcinda were just talking, not about defection until Parqual walked up and asked for a blessing. He then told her, “The time is now. Be ready” and him, his daughter, and the Felstones began moving to Stromgarde. Then feeling like crap that these regular people were braver than she, she told Vellcinda who she was and asked her to come with her. Then Sylvanas blew the horns (and launched the dark rangers). That’s when chaos erupted and Calia went “Hey ya’ll I’m Calia come with me to freedom!” and got an arrow thru the chest.

So yeah, her one mistake was listening to Parqual lol.

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