Lilian claims her and Derek, and Lilian is the interim official leader. Point is moot.
The Apothecaries literally research how to prevent the rot that drives Forsaken to their ultimate death.
True, but this also applies to Baine save for Thrall.
And in WoW, being of Light always turn to Shadow. You know this. She’s even touched by a Naaru who ALWAYS go through Shadow phases.
Tyrande did. And Derek says he would’ve been rejected by Kul Tirans as a whole. And he’s probably right. Even Alonsus Faol was rejected by Genn, and initially rejected by Turalyon.
Because its deliberately phrasing it in the worst possible way to score a victory on the internet. For instance, I’d define that moment as Sylvanas betraying the majority of the Desolate Council under the mistaken belief that they were a security risk. I can do it too.
Except that mine is arguably more in line with how that scene is portrayed in the book.
Nice projection, but it’s the reality of what took place.
Yes or no? Going with Calia at that point to reunite with family meant leaving the Horde and joining the Alliance.
No matter how it’s portrayed in the book this is what transpired. I’m not denying that what Sylvanas did was bad, but I’m not going to gloss over the FACT that Calia attempted to get some of the Forsaken to leave the Horde.
Well, look on the bright side. Forsaken are getting a leader who is not going to be secretly plotting behind her own faction’s back, using her people as tools for her own ends, nor any innate desire to wipe the living off the planet or tear open holes to WoWhell in the sky.
In short, maybe someone who won’t contribute to making the Horde look like a bunch of derp villains.
They’d have to do some serious retcon gymnastics in order to villain bat any of the current Horde Council members. Some members might be in favor of aggression towards the Alliance: Rokhan and Telanji according to Shadows Rising and definitely Geya’rah. Their outnumbered and outvoted currently into starting any wars, so they’d have to band together and launch a coup to do that. Rokhan’s too loyal to the Horde to try that. After having her people saved twice by the Horde I doubt Telanji would try to usurp control.
That leaves Geya’rah who might start drumming up a following of like minded people but they would have to present her doing some major strategy and subterfuge in order to successfully overthrow the Council. She doesn’t strike me as being that smart.
Does any of this mean that Blizzard won’t try? Of course not. I’d like to think if they wanted to villain bat the Horde somemore though, they wouldn’t have bothered changing things from warchief to council.
And when have they ever shown themselves unwilling to do “retcon gymnastics”?
And regarding the change from warchief to council … seriously, all it will take is some new writer with new ideas who wants to redo things, “but better.” That’s how we got MoP 2.0, after all.
But don’t you think it’s a rather sad testimony for the writing that the horde as a faction has to do a 180 in order to prevent future villain-batting?
Can we not have our own values, and justified grievances, and can they not be written as understandable and worth maintaining? Do we have to be alliance clones to earn the right to exist?
Abolishing the warchief position and making someone like Calia the figurehead of the Forsaken is not a sign of positive development in my eyes, it’s adding insult to injury in the aftermath of the most devastating expansion for horde players.
I disagree. Eventually Horde was going to learn that Warchief as a military dictatorship just doesn’t work. They might have stuck with it and the warchief after Sylvanas might have been more like Thrall and Vol’jin but eventually they’d get another Blackhand/Garrosh/Sylvanas and we’d start all over again.
In fact it seems like the Horde is learning it even before the Alliance are since they’re stuck in “High King of the Alliance” form of leadership. Anduin seems mellow but his replacement, assuming there ever will be one, might not be.
A council just seems like they’re at least trying to make the Horde less aggressive.
As far as justified grievances go, that depends on Blizzard’s capability to allow Alliance a turn to be aggressive instead of just sitting there and waiting to get punched by the Horde again.
If they follow through after certain actions taken by certain Alliance figures in Shadows Rising, they just might.
Yeah, neither do I.
I admire your optimism and wish I could share it.
But I fear if they want to make the horde evil aggressors again, they will find a way to do so, council or not.
I don’t consider these issues towards ‘ruining’ the Forsaken so much as general facts’. Though as was noted, Forsaken includes a lot of undead and even Leper Gnomes.
I’ve said it before (When someone ridiculed me for suggesting Delaryn Summermoon would be a better fit than Calia ) and I’ll say it again , I’d rather have Undead Hogger as the Forsaken Leader than Calia; who doesn’t have much depth with the Horde, Forsaken or in-game lore (In the books yes, but hardly is established in game; which is a rather frustrating repetition of Blizzard’s part) .
Alonsus Faol isn’t the same type of forsaken. He broke free on his own, yet folks are fine with him.
Sylvanas suffers no downsides considering she used banshee magic to keep that pretty skin of hers. Unlike the other Forsaken who needed to replace bodyparts.
Thalyrssa and Tyrande Whisperwind grew up in the same exact city. They’re literally the same race. Baine shares a connection with Anduin. Thrall… the guy who started the faction… shares a connection with Jaina.
Voss said they wanted to return to the shadows in the latest book. Calia didn’t protest with that. Also forsaken still use light magic, it just hurts them.
Calia was forced out of her home like the rest of the citizens of Lordaeron. She suffers from the same memories of the scourge. And that is not true, being Forsaken doesn’t mean you are totally rejected. If that was true, Forsaken would be a third faction. They were accepted by the Tauren. Also they were rejected because there was a zombie uprising in Lordaeron and it was hard for someone to tell who was scourge and who wasn’t.
Lilian Voss is the daughter of a high priest and remembers her life in Lordaeron. She recognizes who and what Calia Menethil is.
The Forsaken of Lordaeron twelve years ago operated under a monarchy and had operated under that monarchy for hundreds of years. They do not want a democracy, their council was just something that was still subject to a main monarch, Sylvanas in that case.
The Forsaken of Lordaeron are currently without a head. They have a convenient Menethil right there and can just put her into a figurehead position to attempt gain some stability.
I don’t think forsaken players need to be reminded they’re on their second strike now with the Horde. First the events at wrathgate and now Sylvanas’s betrayal. You’re on very thin ice with the ranks of the Horde, Voss even states that in quest text.
Calia Menethil isn’t just for you. It’s for the rest of the Horde. The rest of the Horde sees you have a light-infused priestess in a high position, they’re going to assume you’ve calmed down and aren’t willing to risk breaking up the Horde again.
Actually, I’m not sure he is. I don’t think Sylvanas freed every Forsaken herself, but she claims to have freed him in Before the Storm chapter 20.
“He is indeed Forsaken. He seems genuine, though when I suggested he pledge fealty to you and the Horde, he demurred. He said he preferred to serve the Light rather than kings or queens.”
“Ha!” Sylvanas said without humor. “I liberated him to be a Forsaken so that he could have free will, and thus am I repaid. No matter. I take it you believe he is harmless.”
Well she still suffers the deadening of positive emotions and increase of negative ones.
This is incorrect. Grand Executor Mortuus is the default leader of the Forsaken in Sylvanas absence. He commands the army/civil administration - the Deathguard.
Oh yeah? Well The Horde is Nothing. What are they going to do? Cry? Run to Anduin and Jaina? And Calia is still a terrible character who will never be the Forsaken leader.
On a more serious note: the Forsaken players did not ask for any of this. We were perfectly fine chilling in Undercity with our Dark Lady plotting in the shadows. No one was more surprised at Blizzard making Sylvanas Warchief than we were. And we all hoped Blizzard would take it in an interesting, creative direction. Instead they destroyed everything for MoP 2.0. And now here come the “peace at all costs, Alliance and Horde should be best friends and everyone should get along” people to shove Calia Lightprincess down our throats.
Sorry. I don’t think Blizzard should have made players complicit in genocide. I’ve always opposed the idea that Horde players should have to be punished for story beats that they did not choose. And I reject your attempt to make the Forsaken playerbase culpable for decisions and story beats that they openly despise. No one hates this current storyline more than Forsaken fans and Sylvanas loyalists.
The only people who come close to hating this current story more are Night Elf players (and for good reason)
