Calia and the Forsaken

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

To me, the core appeal of the horde, and something that’s been advertised about them by Blizzard, was them being a group of monstrous races that were prejudiced against by normal races. Outcasts who find a home and family among each other, by inverting typical fantasy tropes where you’re not a villain just because you’re playing a monster race.

Calia has never been needed for the forsaken, or the horde as a whole, to progress in their stories. On the contrary, her forced inclusion robs the forsaken of agency of improving on their own via homegrown characters that feel like they came from their own faction, instead of the story “gifting” them from the alliance.

The game should have gone with the forsaken learning to control their own decay. Or in some instances, maybe it’s actually fine for some of them to succumb. The forsaken are a tragic race, after all, and those aspects of trauma, degenerative mental illness, loss of family and faith, and learning to deal with it (NOT cure it) is just as much a part of them as being zombies are. Calia is detrimental to that story, not an accessory to it. Because as long as she’s getting narrative focus, that’s time spent that isn’t being given to literally any forsaken NPC that could’ve been expanded on instead.

The story isn’t just some book we’re reading. These races and characters are intended to represent their fans just as much, if not moreso, than them simply existing for their own sake. And if most forsaken fans dislike Calia, then no amount of her helping the forsaken mends their immersion in the game.

From what I understand, the problems night elf fans have with the story is completely different. Theirs is a loss of efficacy, of feeling like they’re the super strong amazon warriors from WC3 that they believed they were rolling. This extended nonsense with the new world tree seed doesn’t help that. What they need is blood. And the only “interest” I’ve seen from anyone regarding the seed is hoping that the game finally puts the Teldrassil storyline to rest, because people are sick and tired of it. I wouldn’t call that good storytelling, either.

[Dõtte-area-52]

look the forsakens angst-ridden rage mommy is gone but their future is looking pretty thicc. i look forward to climbing those hills.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

And Sylvanas should be gone, but so should Calia. We should get to bury them both. If we are gonna be over the past, both need to be gone.

[Luuni-area-52]

@Sarm-malganis

And if most forsaken fans dislike Calia, then no amount of her helping the forsaken mends their immersion in the game.

These same Forsaken fans don’t even acknowledge that they’re from Lordaeron.

Whenever I make Forsaken characters and my favorite is a Forsaken priest I recently recreated in Classic, is such a great character as she’s such a paradox.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

My Forsaken has her Of Lordaeron title and doesn’t hide it.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Sarm-malganis

The game should have gone with the forsaken learning to control their own decay.

Indeed. The idea of a doomed civilization struggling to survive is a popular and rich story ground in fantasy/sci-fi stories, from the Cybermen of Dr Who to the Necron of 40k to the Vidiians of Star Trek.

[Dõtte-area-52]

World of warcraft: Life of a ninja

[Toddorbert-thrall]

@Maizou-proudmoore

Let’s not even get started on the fact she committed literal genocide.

You sylvanas fanboys disturb me sometimes.

lol. spoken like an alliance drone. where as on the other side of the coin, views are very different.

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

@Luuni-area-52

These same Forsaken fans don’t even acknowledge that they’re from Lordaeron.

Because to be frank, their history as living Lordaeronians doesn’t mean jack. From what I’ve heard while speaking to forsaken fans, a lot of them care more about the fact that those former lives of theirs are GONE, that no matter how much they wish to, they can never go back to the way things were. The pain is too deep as to be unhealable, and the implication that it can be fixed at all only serves to minimize that pain.

Being forsaken means you were violated physically, spiritually, intimately. Because your character’s prince commanded your loved ones through sheer force of will to murder and cannibalize you, and quite possibly forced you to rise and do it yourself, to your own friends, family, children, etc. To try to appeal to your faith as a source of comfort, but to have that same faith shower you with suicidal levels of agony as your body becomes “alive” for just a brief enough period of time that you feel yourself die all over again. It means running to whatever friends and family that may have survived in the hopes of shelter and protection, only to be cast out because they can’t, or refuse to, differentiate you from the mindless zombies that look just like you. Or worse, know that you’re a person again but are so disgusted with what you are that they’d rather disown you than help you.

And then you look at the other zombies in the same situation as you, and tell the world “Screw you. We have each other, and we’re going to survive anyway.”

That’s way more important than some otherwise irrelevant trivia that you come from a long line of human carrot farmers in a land that doesn’t accept what you are now.

And I think on some level you’ve got to realize that, or else a forsaken priest wouldn’t be a paradox to you. Because what I just described is what the common forsaken experience is. And your character looks up at the sky and says “I will suffer all of this, again and again and again, because my faith is unshakeable. My mind is damaged, my emotions dampened, but burned I may be, I still walk in the light.”

Calia doesn’t do any of that. The light accommodated her. The alliance sheltered her when they rejected your character. And she uses the name shared by your abuser as proof that she holds claim over you.

[Fulgrim-area-52]

@Beatrices-frostmourne

Calia Menethil: “But will they ever truly accept me?“

Hell NO. Menethils are persona non grata for what their bloodline did to Lordaeron and Azeroth at large. When I play forsaken I feel nothing but contempt for that awful character.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Fulgrim-area-52

Menethils are persona non grata for what their bloodline did to Lordaeron and Azeroth at large.

Precisely. People who come in with their “but Calia is the rightful heir” crap have no understanding of history.

Louis Alphonse de Bourbon never did anything wrong to the French, but there are concrete reasons why he isn’t King of France - the Bourbons are finished. Likewise with the Menethils.

[Toddorbert-thrall]

@Channyn-moon-guard

The point I was making with my post is that Callia is a way forward for the Forsaken (and perhaps the Horde, as well). A lot of people on the Horde side seem to want to stay focused on the past–the way things were. I think that’s why a lot of people dislike her as much as they do. I think it’s also why many players aren’t happy with new races being added to the Horde–as if it somehow dilutes what the Horde was or used to be.

the main issue and certainly the biggest issue I have with her, is her human appearance vs the actual forsaken appearance. Having Calia around (repping for the Forsaken) gives the illusion humans are in charge (at least imo).

Sir Zeliek would be better option to speak on behalf of the Forsaken, especially when blizz finally gets around to adding paladin specs to the Forsaken. Calia can float back to Stormwind Castle. Heck, she can strap a saddle to Baine and they can both head home to the alliance.

[Rasari-wyrmrest-accord]

@Luuni-area-52

If you haven’t read Before the Storm, it’s worth the read. There is a fantastic bit, that really helps portray Calia’s character, just before she’s unfortunately killed.

I ain’t wasting money on a trash book that served to further villian bat Sylvanas and and set up Calia as the White Saviour of the Forsaken wouldn’t recommend anyone else does especially considering all the lore in said book should be in game.

@Karnaz-zuljin

Ironic, isn’t it? To fix the Horde, Blizzard sends us Alliance leaders.

Well considering that Kalimdor book not surprised at this point.

@Brewa-hyjal

Yes, it’s why Calia is so heavily despised by Horde players.

And why she’s so loved by Alliance players.

@Soulebreaker-hyjal

She’s not Forsaken. She was never forsaken. Forsaken is a name for those left behind by humans. She was never feared and abandoned.

No worries sure Blizzard will retcon that in a future book.

@Dõtte-area-52

It just makes their tears that just tastier. They’ll never have a say in how Blizzard writes the lore. I can’t wait to see how much more Blizzard pisses off these oh so important horde players.

It just makes me want to quit even more and go play FFXIV

@Brewa-hyjal

And PRETTY! Don’t forget the PRETTY! That’s the most important thing to Golden.

Oh and her “gentleman” Anduin who shes obsessed with.

@Sarm-malganis

To me, the core appeal of the horde, and something that’s been advertised about them by Blizzard, was them being a group of monstrous races that were prejudiced against by normal races. Outcasts who find a home and family among each other, by inverting typical fantasy tropes where you’re not a villain just because you’re playing a monster race.

I’m the same and now that’s being completely ruined by WoW Writers especially Golden.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

@Rasari-wyrmrest-accord

No worries sure Blizzard will retcon that in a future book.

This is very likely, since they went all in on her.

[Beatrices-frostmourne (Beatrices)]

I’ve been reviewing comments and I’d like to point out something I’ve noticed.

The majority of likes for comments supporting and rallying for Calia seem to be from Alliance players/accounts.

The majority of likes for comments against her and her character seem to be from Forsaken/Horde players/accounts.

I think that in itself is very telling about the impression the story is having and who it really appeals to.

[Dreadmoon-saurfang (Dreadmoon)]

Here’s a really cool post with a pretty profound video on Slyvanas and how they ruined her character.

Pretty depressing stuff

@Draeven-wyrmrest-accord

The mess they made out of Sylvanas’s story is what happens when you hire a sadistic sociopath to write for you. Khanlusa has one of the best takes I’ve seen on this:
https://youtu.be/Z6gL-MnAoiU

[Fulgrim-area-52]

@Dreadmoon-saurfang

Pretty depressing stuff

Yeah that video was depressing alright.

[Beatrices-frostmourne (Beatrices)]

@Channyn-moon-guard

Sylvanas and the choices that she made were a choice of stagnation–perpetual clinging to a victimization that she could never fully leave behind

While I like the depth of your post, when I see comments like this, it is honestly upsetting.

I think a lot do not understand that one of the ideas that drew in people to the original Forsaken and Sylvanas was that very sense of rejection and being a victim. For many of us in the world, the idea represented that being rejected or feeling rejected in this world, but the Forsaken illustrated that and how they found strength together and forged their own future against all those that wished they were gone or didn’t exist.

That is what it represented. That was the fire that lit in a lot of us when we were younger. In any fantasy genre, you find what connects to you, and for many of us, it was that struggle.

Sometimes you can’t leave behind what was done to you, that’s the idea, but you take up those scars that are now part of you and show the world that you won’t just disappear because you don’t fit in their vision.

I don’t think that idea or message needs to be viewed as victimisation and the idea of “get over it”. Nor how Blizzard is attempting to soften it. It is simply representation of the struggle.

[Pyromor-shandris (Pyromor)]

I would like to see the full story which they haven’t presented . In the long run she would have to prove to the forsaken she is a good leader, not just by hier but by sacrifice. Will she be up to it? In time we will know.

[Channyn-moon-guard]

I LOVE the way you expressed this, and I think it’s spot on in a lot of ways.

But…I also think Sylvanas, rather than embracing the idea that banding together created strength, saw banding together as a necessity to survive. I don’t know that she ever embraced the idea that she was one among many. In fact, I think she thrived on the idea that she was the leader–the one who gave direction to those that followed her.

And when the Forsaken started wanting something more than just her vision, she abandoned them in favor of chasing after an ideal–to destroy Death itself. Maybe she thought that was the only way she’d ever be able to be free and move on. Maybe she thought that was the only way to get people to see the “truth” about everything.

At some point, though, I think it became less about banding together and deriving strength in doing so and more about her own desires.

And I don’t think anyone should “just get over it.” That isn’t how you grow, and it isn’t how you learn to accept what’s come before and embrace it as a part of what makes you YOU. But I think Sylvanas didn’t want to embrace her scars. I feel like the direction of the story that Blizzard has written alludes to this. She didn’t want to become her scars; she wanted to obliterate them as though they’d never happened at all. And the Forsaken kept reminding her of the past she was always trying to forget–leave behind–destroy. I think that’s why it’s so important that she was so insistent that they forget about their pasts–books, families, lives, and all.

Anyway, I really appreciate what you said. As one of those people who never really quite fits in, I get how important it is to find those who will accept you. And as others have pointed out, I -do- think it would have been better if the Forsaken that were already part of that story had gotten more screen time and more involvement instead of just having a Callia be inserted into their progression. But Callia is what we got, and I would be ecstatic if, for instance, the Forsaken DID forsake her. How cool of a story would that be? Where does it go? What does Callia do? Does she take it lying down? Become a villain? Ride off into the sunset and become a pirate?

I dunno. I guess it’s foolish to think that there are some neat stories waiting to be written as Bliz has a hard time writing nuanced characters. BUT…I still like to hope that just like this game has grown and changed over the years, so too can its writing team and story development team. And in the meantime, I can play my own nuanced characters who hate things and rebel against them–however futile that might be.