Calia and the Forsaken

[Beatrices-frostmourne (Beatrices)]

Calia Menethil: “But will they ever truly accept me?“

Okay I’m sorry but, yeah, while I like Calia and her general good intentions, here’s the thing about this character. In the Forsaken story, there is just very little to go on in terms of recognising her as a leader.

I understand Blizzard are trying to portray her and Derek as the “new” Sylvanas and Nathanos (but less crazy), but you can’t just replace someone that iconic to the heart of the Forsaken story and expect it to work.

As terrible of a dumpster fire that Sylvanas’ story became, the origins of her actions are what cemented her role and legacy for the Forsaken identity:

Breaking free of the Lich king and almost succeeding in assassinating Arthas.

Gathering all free-thinking undead and uniting them.

Marshalling the Forsaken forces and fighting off demons, the living, and the Scourge that wanted to subdue them.

Taking Lordaeron from both the Dreadlords and Humans, making it a base of operations and home for the Forsaken.

Basically saved the Bloodelves by sending in Forsaken troops to help secure their land.

Using every plot and string pulled to have the Horde go attack the Lich King.

While it may not look great, she was able to extend Forsaken power throughout Lordaeron, all the way to Gilneas and Arathi.

You can’t deny her accolades and accomplishments, which is what made the Forsaken culture concept of “Victory for Sylvanas”. It was Do or Die for the Darklady.

For “The Pallid Lady”? Something has got to give. Yeah she’s helped here and there, but it isn’t notable enough. We need to see some real drive presented with her and the Forsaken to cement her in, else it’s just going to stay awkward (especially with her Alliance ties always being the elephant in the room).

Edit: And yes, we are all aware she is “part of a council”, but she is the most notable figure on it (and frankly in BfA it was clear they were intending to build her up even further than that). She is still in a position of leadership with no merit or real association to the Forsaken sacrifices.

[Arturas-elune]

She’s one of five people on the Desolate Council, not our sole leader. I’ll take her over Voss who abandoned us for a decade and then came in pretending like she always cared about us.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Beatrices-frostmourne

I understand Blizzard are trying to portray her and Derek as the “new” Sylvanas and Nathanos (but less crazy)

Except they aren’t.

Calia is one of a Council. She isn’t the sole leader. Any decisions she makes must be OKd by the other members, as with their decisions as well.

@Beatrices-frostmourne

Taking Lordaeron from both the Dreadlords and Humans, making it a base of operations and home for the Forsaken.

And depriving them of the chance to reunite with their human families when she realized the humans have changed and would accept the Forsaken, by killing all of the Forsaken at the gathering as well as Calia so there would be no witnesses that the Humans had changed.

@Beatrices-frostmourne

all the way to Gilneas

Which is not a good thing, despite what you think.

Forcing a famously neutral group of humans to join the enemy is not a win. Gilneas was famously against joining either faction to the point they built a giant wall to keep out both factions.

Sylvanas invaded a NEUTRAL COUNTRY, blighted it against all war laws at the time, and forced them to join the Alliance as they had no other choice but to die.

---

Let’s not even get started on the fact she committed literal genocide.

You sylvanas fanboys disturb me sometimes.

[Arturas-elune]

@Maizou-proudmoore

You sylvanas fanboys disturb me sometimes.

Sylvanas was really cool from WC3 until the end of WotLK. Some people just never got the memo that she went full crazy at the start of Cata.

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Arturas-elune

Some people just never got the memo that she went full crazy at the start of Cata.

She was fine until she invaded Gilneas.

From both a lore and tactical standpoint, the invasion made zero sense.

If anything, the Sylvanas we knew from pre-Cata would have sought to help the surviving Gilneans when she found out the Worgen were unleashed in the lands. She wouldn’t have just straight up blighted them.

I understand that this was all done lore-wise because at this point, she made her deal with the Jailer to feed him souls, but it completely butchered the character she had in Vanilla-Wrath.

No different than how Garrosh’s character did a 180 in MoP.

[Arturas-elune]

@Maizou-proudmoore

She was fine until she invaded Gilneas.

Which happened at the start of Cata.

@Maizou-proudmoore

From both a lore and tactical standpoint, the invasion made zero sense.

Loath as I am to defend post-WotLK Sylvanas, she was ordered to invade by Garrosh.

[Stenchbone-terenas (Stenchbone)]

“HEY GAIZ I’m undead too! Can I be in ur club???”

draws daggers

[Crepsly-earthen-ring (Crepsly)]

@Beatrices-frostmourne

Calia Menethil: “But will they ever truly accept me?“

No.

#NotMyFactionLeader

[Rasari-wyrmrest-accord]

Are they trying to force the Alliance onto the Forsaken now via Calia Menethil and Derek like seriously? Hope not so sick of this storytelling it’s awful.

@Arturas-elune

Sylvanas was really cool from WC3 until the end of WotLK. Some people just never got the memo that she went full crazy at the start of Cata.

No she most definitely did not although thats what modern Blizzard will have you beleive cause they refuse to come out and admit they ruined her as a character.

@Maizou-proudmoore

She was fine until she invaded Gilneas.

From both a lore and tactical standpoint, the invasion made zero sense.

Oh you mean that thing she did under the orders of Garrosh? That invasion of Gilneas? Also it does make sense in the lore Garrosh hates Sylvanas and the Forsaken so he did to them what he did the Player Character at the start WotLK sent them out to die.

[Luuni-area-52]

@Beatrices-frostmourne

In the Forsaken story, there is just very little to go on in terms of recognising her as a leader.

@Beatrices-frostmourne

Calia Menethil

The Forsaken became Forsaken 20 years ago. Before that, they had a long history as the kingdom of Lordaeon for 1,200 years. Being Forsaken is a literal blink in the history of Lordaeron.

The Forsaken are Lordaeron. Most of those corpses that Sylvanas was using were from the graveyards of Lordaeron. Those who she freed from the scourge’s mind control? Citizens of Lordaeron.

Calia Menethil has a bloodline that traces back 1,200 years. You’d be hard pressed to find someone more suitable for the Forsaken than her, especially since this is a fantasy land with kings and queens.

@Rasari-wyrmrest-accord

Are they trying to force the Alliance onto the Forsaken now via Calia Menethil

The Forsaken already tried to join the alliance with Sylvanas. That was their goal. That was the goal of the blood elves too.

If they become friendlier with the alliance, that was their original goal, so nothing wrong with that.

[Stenchbone-terenas (Stenchbone)]

@Luuni-area-52

Calia Menethil has a bloodline that traces back 1,200 years. You’d be hard pressed to find someone more suitable for the Forsaken than her, especially since this is a fantasy land with kings and queens.

She gave up her claim to the throne when she fled with her life and left her people to fall to the shadow. She has claim to exactly squat.

[Luuni-area-52]

@Stenchbone-terenas

She has claim to exactly squat.

Her claim is as good as other’s will to recognize it. She’s on the council for the sole reason she’s the heir to the kingdom. It gives the Forsaken legitimacy in the eyes of the Alliance since they wanted to go retake Lordaeron for Calia.

Also, others call her Princess and or Lady Menethil. She’s still super important to the Forsaken/Lordaeron.

(Your character looks super cool, too bad your guild name is )

[Stenchbone-terenas (Stenchbone)]

@Luuni-area-52

(Your character looks super cool, too bad your guild name is )

[Rasari-wyrmrest-accord]

@Luuni-area-52

Calia Menethil has a bloodline that traces back 1,200 years. You’d be hard pressed to find someone more suitable for the Forsaken than her, especially since this is a fantasy land with kings and queens.

She abandoned her people and went into hiding for who years she should be nowhere near the Forsaken at all and should of never ever come back.

@Luuni-area-52

The Forsaken already tried to join the alliance with Sylvanas. That was their goal. That was the goal of the blood elves too.

Yeah that was ages ago before they tried to wipe them out on multiple occasions among many of the atrocities the Alliance has committed that Blizzard wants to sweep under the rug.

@Luuni-area-52

If they become friendlier with the alliance, that was their original goal, so nothing wrong with that.

A lot wrong with that actually it’s downright awful storytelling.

[Luuni-area-52]

@Rasari-wyrmrest-accord

She abandoned her people and went into hiding for who years she should be nowhere near the Forsaken at all and should of never ever come back.

I’ve made this argument before, but she’s a Princess in a fantasy land. A literal Disney princess whose sole purpose was to marry someone and then expand the kingdom’s influence. She didn’t have any combat skills. She wasn’t a political guru. She was a chess piece for her family. So what should she have done when the scourge came? Fight? How?

@Rasari-wyrmrest-accord

Yeah that was ages ago before they tried to wipe them out on multiple occasions among many of the atrocities the Alliance has committed that Blizzard wants to sweep under the rug.

It was 20 years ago when Sylvanas first got control. She sent out letters and the humans were like “Eww zombies.”

@Rasari-wyrmrest-accord

A lot wrong with that actually it’s downright awful storytelling.

It shows character progression that two nations who were allies, then fought and are now trying to be allies again.

It’s pretty bad storytelling for two nations to be at constant war for the sake of being at war. Kind of boring to be honest. Zero twists and turns.

[Rasari-wyrmrest-accord]

@Luuni-area-52

I’ve made this argument before, but she’s a Princess in a fantasy land. A literal Disney princess whose sole purpose was to marry someone and then expand the kingdom’s influence.

Yes something she despised and held great resentment for not being fond of the forced marriage that was being arranged for her.

@Luuni-area-52

She didn’t have any combat skills. She was a political guru. She was a chess piece for her family. So what should she have done when the scourge came? Fight? How?

Attempt to fight for her people bravely dying at the hands of the scourge or Arthas not running away like a cowardly royal and then slinking on back like nothing happened.

@Luuni-area-52

It was 20 years ago when Sylvanas first got control. She sent out letters and the humans were like “Eww zombies.”

Such wounds don’t heal over 20 years.

@Luuni-area-52

It shows character progression that two nations who were allies, then fought and are now trying to be allies again.

No it doesn’t when it is horrendously forced and tries to brush all of the past under the rug.

@Luuni-area-52

It’s pretty bad storytelling for two nations to be at constant war for the sake of being at war. Kind of boring to be honest. Zero twists and turns.

They don’t need to be at war but they don’t need to be buddy buddy either there’s a middle ground which is where they should be like just gone from War to Colonisation.

[Luuni-area-52]

@Rasari-wyrmrest-accord

They don’t need to be at war but they don’t need to be buddy buddy either there’s a middle ground which is where they should be like just gone from War to Colonisation.

In the books most of the regular Forsaken seem tired and upset with their curse. I’m sure they’d love to be human again if given the chance.

Also, remember when Sylvanas forbid and confiscated memorabilia from their past life? She was a overbearing tyrant and if you didn’t agree with her or strayed too far from her sphere of influence? Boom. You’re double dead. (You’re already dead as a Forsaken…so ultra mega dead or deader than before.)

[Rasari-wyrmrest-accord]

@Luuni-area-52

In the books most of the regular Forsaken seem tired and upset with their curse. I’m sure they’d love to be human again if given the chance.

Yuh which is messed up and gross just another example of Blizzards garbage writing like taking a similar router with the Worgen.

@Luuni-area-52

Also, remember when Sylvanas forbid and confiscated memorabilia from their past life? She was a overbearing tyrant and if you didn’t agree with her or strayed too far from her sphere of influence? Boom. You’re double dead. (You’re already dead as a Forsaken…so ultra mega dead or deader than before.)

No don’t remember that must of happened in an awfully written book that I shouldn’t have to read to understand what on earth is going on.

[Greatbobbo-zuljin (Greatbobbo)]

Calia could find a cure for Forsaken wasting away, completely remove the remaining Scourge from Lordaeron, then reclaim the Plaguelands and I still wouldn’t follow her.

Calia acts as she is one of the Forsaken but isn’t. She was revived shortly after death. Her skin and organs aren’t rotting away. Her body parts don’t have to be replaced. She doesn’t have to deal with slowly going mad as her brain deteriorates. Other Forsaken have to deal with the internal trauma knowing they were mind controlled and may have killed their friends and family. Calia refers to the Forsaken as “her people,” due to her ties to Lordaeron royalty, but that line was broken once the Scourge attacked.

I’ve said it before, but her attitude is one who read a magazine article then thinks they are an authority on the subject.

[Jackoltins-moon-guard]

While I’m not a fan of Calia or Derek for the matter, I don’t mind her that much since she is one of five leaders on the Desolate council and is balanced out by having Belmont, Farrnel and Velanora on there too. Just hope those three get their own unique models in the future since they’re racial leaders now.