Calia and the Forsaken

Nah, you’re right. Even though I take the view that succession still plays an important role for the Forsaken, you are quite right that it doesn’t make sense with her as a light infused undead. Caila as a possible leader of the Forsaken would only work in my opinion if she had been an undead since the third war. A conflict between her and Sylvanas loyalists would have added a lot of spice to the story.

I don’t like her the way she is now, too. She should have stayed with the alliance.

I think that Blizzard wants to force a peace between the Alliance and the Horde for good. And they can only do that by making the Forsaken a friendly faction.

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If you try to hold on to the past, eventually you will end up holding only dust.

What I see here is that there are a lot of people who don’t want the Forsaken to move forward from their past–as though they should be perpetually what they started out as being. On one hand, that absolutely fits the Forsaken as a race, but one that would inevitably be doomed to die out. Callia as a character is meant to be a move forward; Sylvanas and the choices that she made were a choice of stagnation–perpetual clinging to a victimization that she could never fully leave behind (and part of what a lot of the stories since Cataclysm sought to showcase). While many of you see her choices post-WotLK as a means of coping and moving forward, they’re actually attempts at perpetuating a cycle in order to maintain some shred of the past. She never left it behind. And when the Legion invaded, and she saw that even the greatest heroes fell, it must have been a reminder of the fall of Quel’thalas all over again. She watched her whole world fall apart, and rather than succumb to the Legion, she chose to pull back and regroup–something that might have saved more lives in her past, though we’ll never know for sure. But those moments, to me, show that she never really moved past her death.

The way it was written was poor; I will grant a lot of people that. And many of you may not like the turn, or may have felt that she was growing and changing over time. I can’t dispute what you felt or thought you saw, but I continue to see that narrative for her played out over, and over, and over again throughout the stories both in the game, and in the stories, and in the books.

Sylvanas clung to the past; Callia is seeking to leave her past behind her–perhaps because she now has no other choice (though her past certainly isn’t something to be proud of or something that, for her, is likely something that she wants to remember; there’s a lot of pain wrapped up in all of that, and the fact that she took time to try and cope with her trauma only to have everyone she loved taken from her? Yeah…I can see how maybe she’d want to reunite the undead with the living in the hopes that she might find her own past somewhere–even a piece of it). But she also wants to see the Forsaken move beyond their own trauma–perhaps in the hope that it will help her to move on from her own. She doesn’t want them to “live” with only hatreds and regrets. And I get not every Forsaken wanting to do that; I get a lot of them wanting to just say “screw it.” It’s easier to hold on to hate than to let it go and find you have nothing in your life at all.

I’m looking forward to the wars to come within the Forsaken themselves. I think that’s going to make for some amazing stories. And how to they reconcile that? Do they cast the Plague-Spreaders out? Do they embrace the experimenters and cast out those who are unwilling to do what is necessary to “survive?” There are a lot of moral dilemmas within the Horde that need to be resolved–and as far as most Alliance players are concerned, they’ve kind of just been looking the other way for a long time. Which is why there have been so many problems in the past. Maybe that’s the legacy of the Horde.

And there are -plenty- of problems within the Alliance, too; so, don’t think I’m just laying it all on the Horde. Much like the Horde, I think the Alliance has also been looking the other way since the last war and just trying to rebuild. But all that old rivalry and tension–all the bad blood and pain isn’t just going to resolve itself. And sure, we’re distracted now with a new continent and new shiny things to explore, but if we keep pretending that everything is fine, eventually we’re going to turn around and see the problems we’ve been avoiding.

And maybe it’s okay to avoid that for another 10 or 15 years in the WoW storyline. I think that might actually be the most realistic thing to happen in this game’s story in a long time. I’m just looking forward to the day when we find the things we left behind have festered and taken root and given rise to real threats–all because we wanted to hope that by not looking at the bad things they’d somehow just inevitably stop existing.

Maybe then…we can truly move forward in the world.

In short: I don’t really mind that people don’t like Callia. I think that’s fine. I think that’s, in fact, a great story. I think it allows for more interesting stories in the future, and I really hope that Bliz will take that into consideration when looking at the future of WoW.

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She’s not. She was a princess until Lordaeron fell. What did that entail? Um…tea? Ceremonies? Walks around the castle grounds? Um… preparations for getting married to Deathwing? Um…more tea? Dressing up? More ceremonies? Um…more tea? Idk, she certainly wasn’t going on adventures like Disney princesses.

She was taught literally nothing but how to get married and she didn’t even do that right. She went and married some nobody.

So now Lordaeron falls and what…her tea ceremony skills are going to help her fight zombies? Nope. She runs away to Southshore with her family. Then Alonsus Faol finds her, tells her to go with him and she becomes a priestess. She spends all of her time in that Netherlight Temple and… then the Naaru there, Saara, tell hers “hey… your people really need your help.”

And she’s all like “Oh ok!”

And now we’re here. Same woman who wants to change the world but still severely lacks the skills to do it. But that’s ok, because… she has relationships. She can lean on Alonsus. She can lean on Derek. She can lean on the Council. She’s getting better and doing more stuff. But she’s unlocking new doors for the Forsaken.

In the recent short story, Mia Greymane came to the wedding between Thalyssra and Lor’themar. All the other forsaken were like :eyes: . And Calia was like oh, I know her. :smile:

Calia offers a different perspective for the Forsaken. She’s the goody two shoes.

She’s not an alliance plant because in the Shadow’s Rising novel she explained to the Horde she was late because her ship needed to avoid the Alliance navy. The alliance navy doesn’t care that she’s a Menethil. She’s an undead and with the Forsaken.

Her and Lillian are a great duo.

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See I don’t think the Forsaken need to be removed of all flaws for their to be some peace. And I don’t think that peace needs to be absolute. Even in real life when there is peace, it’s always tentative and there are always those that don’t agree.

We’ve known for a while and it’s been portrayed that Thrall and Vol’jin seek peace with the Alliance. And there are enough Alliance and Horde that do work together.

But it’s completely off kilter and unbelievable for that to be absolute and without fail.

Yeah, but you can see how that will never fit in. She’s the prep trying to fit in with the Goth kids.

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:dracthyr_uwahh_animated: :-1: :person_facepalming: lol bad

That’s what makes it such a great story. :rofl:

In the Shadow’s Rising novel. She’s in the Horde council meeting with Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Forsaken, and Goblins and Nightborne and she takes off her shawl and just folds it’s all neat and proper. That’s such a stark contrast to the Horde, except the Nightborne. They’re more prim and proper than her I imagine.

I want to see what they do with her.

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But there is no story. Not just yet. Other than what was in the books which most people don’t read and don’t know about. In game we are saddled with her. With no previous introduction. She’s just here now. On our council and now we need councils because they’ve damaged enough of our leaders or killed them off that they don’t have anyone left.

So now we have the resentment of our leaders being all destroyed, and our story being controlled by how Alliance players feel about it. Not how we feel about it. It’s bs.

That’s a major part of the problem.

I want them to send her back to the Alliance, since you all like her so much.

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:person_facepalming: :-1: :dracthyr_uwahh_animated: lol

Your race was literally on the alliance longer than it was on the Horde.

:roll_eyes:

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These posts have more variety than Calia’s personality.

No we were not. We were allied with them during the 2nd war, and then left. Then Kael tried to help them during the 3rd war and was sentenced to death. We’ve been in the Horde since BC. Which was 16 years ago. Brief periods of time do not exceed 16 years in time.

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Still right. Calia hate is just edge-lord cringe.

Not an edge-lord myself. Just don’t like shoe-horned characters with zero development but now are suddenly in an important position without ever earning it just to make the Horde like the Alliance.

There needs to be variety and characters should be more than the personality of inanimate objects.

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What’s the point, if it’s all revolving around a character that seemingly the greater portion of the forsaken playerbase dislikes seeing?

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No, the Blood Elves of Quel’thalas have been members of the Horde longer than they were members of the Alliance. The Alliance of Lordaeron wasn’t formed until the Second War. After which, Anasterian withdrew his kingdom from the Alliance over his objections to keeping the Orcs in camps instead of just executing all them. The Second War only lasted about 3 or 4 years.

In contrast, the Blood Elves have been members of Thrall’s New Horde for going on 15+ years.

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Wait…

I thought the humans helped the elves kill the Amani trolls… like…2,800 years ago?

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That wasn’t us being in the Alliance, that was why we owed the Alliance of Lordaeron our allegiance during the second war. Which we fulfilled and then peaced out.

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There was no “Alliance” at that time. When the Amani received aid from Zandalar and began assaulting Quel’thalas directly, the High Elves began teaching the humans of the Arathi Empire arcane magic. When the Amani were defeated, Anasterian made a pledge of friendship to Thoradin and his bloodline.

That pledge being invoked by Anduin Lothar is the only reason Quel’thalas joined the Alliance of Lordaeron 2800 years later during the Second War. Which, as stated before, they promptly left after the Horde was defeated.

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The Menethils lost their claim the moment the dynastic head MURDERED EVERYONE.

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Yes, it’s why Calia is so heavily despised by Horde players.

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Ahh you’re right! I meant to say buddy-buddy with humans.

Ohh I didn’t know this. Funny how now they’re friends!