Calia and the Forsaken

Community General Discussion
81

Yeah, they tried to solve this by somehow making her a light undead by choice. It’s very wierd and inconsistent. I don’t think this kind of writing is very good. The right hand also doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. On the one side, King Terenas was still held in high esteem by the Forsaken, on the other side, the whole Menethil family is hated because of Arthas deeds and they don’t trust Caila just because of that. How does that fit together?

I think the reason is that Blizzard deliberately reserving some characters for future expansions.

In my opinion, Caila could only have been brought back in two ways: As a true undead on the side of the Forsaken, contesting Sylvanas’ position, or as a human who wants to claim Lordaeron for the living. This in-between thing is silly.

Me too.

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82

I think her character has potential if there’s an event where she’s trying to reconcile between the living and the Forsaken, and some zealots blow it up in her face with lots of Forsaken getting killed (again) and her unlife on the brink. Then she’ll finally understand why they call themselves “Forsaken” and know what it’ll take to protect “her people”… if she really wants them to be “her people” again.

I’m curious to see what the Forsaken Heritage Quest will be. Hints point to it involving the Scarlet Crusaders in some fashion. Maybe the actions of the Crusaders will give Calia a new understanding of just what “her people” have endured to become known as Forsaken.

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She is the princess because the title/claim is backed up by others. Stormwind was ready to march on Lordaeron for the sole purpose of giving Calia back her land. Even when Lillian, who was an esteemed member of the Forsaken saw Calia, she bowed and called her my lady.

The same people who call her Princess? if you read Before the Storm, Forsaken call her Princess. In Shadow’s Rising she’s referred to as Princess of Lordaeron and Councilor to the Horde as a representative of the Forsaken.

Some members of the player base may not think she’s the princess, but the Forsaken NPCs, aside from a few like Belmont, don’t like her. But why is that? Because Belmont followed a different leader and doesn’t want his work for the past 20 odd years to be uprooted. He doesn’t want things to go back to how they were when the Forsaken were human. Why? Who knows? Maybe he wasn’t as important as he is now.

If you haven’t read Before the Storm, it’s worth the read. There is a fantastic bit, that really helps portray Calia’s character, just before she’s unfortunately killed.

“You are my people, and I want to help you,” Calia pleaded. “I only came to observe, to begin to get to know the Forsaken of Lordaeron.”

“Undercity,” Elsie said. “We live in the Undercity.”

“You didn’t once. You won’t have to live in the shadows anymore. Just—please. Come walk with me. Parqual, the Felstones, all the others—see them? They’re defecting. Anduin will shelter and protect you all; I know he will!”

“But—the Dark Lady—”

As if in response, the horn sounded three sharp blasts. Elsie turned her gray-green face back toward the wall and the Forsaken banner that had been unfurled.

“I’m sorry, Your Majesty,” Elsie said. “I can’t betray my queen. Not even for you.” She turned and shouted, “Retreat! Retreat!”

Elsie was frightened of Sylvanas, which makes sense, in the book previously she (Sylvanas) took away all memorabilia and mementoes of Lordaeron because she feared that the Forsaken would defect. Heck, even the Desolate Council was a bad thing because she feared they’d stray too far from her.

Sylvanas cares about the Forsaken because she sees them as her people. Calia cares about the Forsaken because they were her people when they were alive. However… Calia didn’t murder Forsaken who wanted to leave. Sylvanas murdered Forsaken who wished to go live with their human family members.

She lost control of the Forsaken and she ended them. She views herself as God, which is a terrible trait in a leader (great trait in a villain).

This is why they put her on the Council. It’s an internship. The end goal of the Forsaken was always to become normal again. However that shifted and they went into this “Lol blight everything, we’re evil zombies” thing. Now Blizzard is changing their narrative to actually have a story instead of being the villains.

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84

Was. Was. Hasn’t been in more than 20 years now. That line is dead. Like she should have stayed.

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85

That’s not how it works with noble titles.

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86

That’s exactly how it works. Once a line is dead, it is dead. People can call her Sally in a book for all I care. Her line is gone and she should be too.

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87

Undead in this case. Do you know the old questline with Barov?

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The line that also ended up being evil?

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89

I refer to the dispute between Weldon Barov (Alliance) and Alexi Barov (Forsaken). Alexi insists that Barov’s inheritance is his, even though he is “dead”. The concept of nobility and succession still seems to play a role somehow among the Forsaken.

“Once a line is dead, it is dead” may be a valid Weldon-Position, but I’m not sure if the forsaken see it that way.

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90

Insistance on it doesn’t make it true. And in the case of the Forsaken, humans turned their backs on them. What was left of their kingdom. The rest were dead or undead. For now over 20 years, they’ve carved out an existence for themselves. Then in BFA comes Calia out of the blue. She didn’t come back immediately after Arthas was gone. She waited until now to be the savior for all undead, even though she had zero experience with what they went through and came from privilege. She tried to re-unite them with their families, which caused a number of them to be murdered by Sylvanas. She was murdered herself. But not brought back as a forsaken, no. She’s this light infused undead that preserves her human look and none of the suffering of the Forsaken.

She’d have been better leading the Alliance undead Nelves. She doesn’t belong here. And these discussions always go the same way. It’s always Alliance players trying to convince us to accept this suspicious character that acts so perfect, and doesn’t have any personality nor personal struggle. A lamp would work better than her.

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91

She gave up her claim to the throne and she doesn’t like to be called Princess. Other’s just refer to her as such.

Also… why did no one ever feel the same about Alonsus Faol? Faol actually got Nathanos to respect him. The same Nathanos who always belittled me lol. Alonsus was able to meet with Anduin, Turalyon, and Nathanos, get all of their respect, but no one is calling him out for not being “forsaken enough”.

Calia Menthol had a struggle. She lost her family when Lordaeron fell. Not just her parents and brother. She also lost her husband and child when she fled to Southshore and was separated.

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92

Because he has more personality than paper? Because he didn’t foolishly lead his people to their death?

I’m talking about the pain and anguish of being undead. Everyone lost someone. She’s not special there. She also ran away and didn’t come back until suspiciously right when Sylvanas was acting a little more crazy and falling out of favor.

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93

Jaina has been in the game since before WoW was a thing. She’s had over 20 years to develop that story. The flaws, the struggles. The opening scenes with her going to Kul Tiras and encountering her mother was decades in the making.

People gave Jaina time to do that, though.

Calia has been around for…a few years, maybe? During an Expansion that was pretty bonkers, mostly. I think there is absolutely potential for her to have growth, struggles, etc.

Even in this thread, people have had suggestions that could showcase that. Having her see how people view the Forsaken, for example. Seeing what it really is like for them. See how that works with her inherent optimism.

And it’s not like Calia had a great time of it. Her brother went crazy evil, murdered her father, sullied her name, and forced her into hiding. When she came back to try to reunite her people with their families, someone killed by her brother murdered her, and everyone around. And she’s back, now.

She has a responsibility to people that she’s not really part of. How she threads that needle can be an amazing story.

But I think people are just reflexively shutting her down, and it’s like…how do you plan to have new stories if you won’t let them happen?

When Varian came back, the outcry was…sizeable. King Chin and his massive statue. But if you read the forums now, people are talking about how awesome Varian was.

I just think maybe we can give Calia a chance. Even if players don’t recognize her title and status, the in game lore is very clear that she is still the princess of the people of Lordaeron. She might live up to that, and she might now.

But I’d be at least interested to see how she does it.

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94

You just hate her because she’s pretty. Admit it! Her dress bothers you since no one else can have it.

I know you have transmog envy. :rofl:

That wasn’t her doing. Saara told her to go back to the Forsaken. Blame the Naaru, which she was/is a puppet of.

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They could have taken a lot of time to develop Calia as well. She first appeared in Legion. That gave them about 5 years. Nothing. And they didn’t even when they had her in story. She’s a blank slate.

Because why should we trust her to not be an Alliance plant? Especially when she is technically storywise to make us more like the Alliance to appease Alliance players still mad about the tree.

Nah, I love pretty characters.

Nah, I believe people are responsible for their own actions unless they are fully possessed. Which she was not.

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96

No, Sylvanas caused them to be murdered by Sylvanas. Sylvanas made the decision to murder her people that were trying to reunite with their families.

Even if it was naive of Calia to not understand just how…Sylvanas is? That doesn’t mean Sylvanas isn’t responsible for this.

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97

Sylvanas is responsible for what she did. But that doesn’t erase how foolish what Calia instructed them to do was. She doesn’t come off as very bright. Just very nice, no flaws, just perfection, nothing suspicious… right?

They absolutely are both responsible for their actions.

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This…suggests that what Sylvanas did is acceptable, and even expected. I’m not…that’s not okay. That’s straight up Lich King behavior. This is the thing that tyrants and despots do.

“If you try to make peace, I will kill all of you.”

Meanwhile, making peace with their families would have gone a long way into making the lives of the Forsaken a lot easier. It could have opened up trade. It could have given the people more of a purpose, to not feel so utterly alone.

Sylvanas doing this made zero sense from any kind of logistical standpoint. Especially if she has also been trying to find a way to bolster her people’s ranks. Especially since she knows full well it’s possible for the Forsaken to work with people who may have hated them at one point. Y’know, with the Tranquillen? How she dispatched Forsaken (formerly Scourge) forces to aid the sin’dorei?

She knows it can work. She just…chose not to do it.

I agree.

Calia’s actions was trying to bring peace and unity to her people.

Sylvanas’ action was murdering everyone involved.

And even after all that? Calia is still trying to help her people.

You want some proof she’s not an Alliance plant? Okay…how about the fact that she literally died for her people, came back as undead, and is still trying to help them?

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No it does not and I’ve never said that anything Sylvanas has done, is doing, will do is acceptable.

Didn’t come back the same way. And is shoe-horned.

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Ironic, isn’t it? To fix the Horde, Blizzard sends us Alliance leaders.

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