Full circle; there are people who dislike bloat that are better than you. I’ve provided a video for you to back that up.
I don’t do RBGs either so this is a random and weird assumption based on nothing.
Your first reply to me was “skill issue”, you have no self awareness.
look at how much fun everyone is having because of the rating system!
i only pvp …so add 4 different traps 2 aspects (turtle and cheetah), exhilaration, muzzle, feign death, camouflage, concussive shot, disengage, flare, intimidation, survival of the fittest, tranquillizing shot ,harpoon and spot for trinket…plus the 8 abilities you mention = bloat…
Full circle. This is a PvE game first.
You’re assuming that’s directed at you. Ever hear of a “generalized statement”?
If you’re complaining about bloat it is.
I also pvp.
You might want to change your binds because that really isn’t that many.
This, most specs are really bloated at this point.
You bring up PvP but no mention of the PvP talents.
All I can suggest is pick a class with less tools to play with.
ok 24 binds that are used isnt bloat ? whateva …
Play resto shaman and 24 binds is nothing last time I counted I was at like 36 or something
And the amount of keys used for PvE seem fine. So maybe we should lean towards that? What do you care if they cut excess spells in PvP since WoW is a “PvE game first” to you?
I have 36 just for pve my guy.
So no 24 is nothing rofl
Which was my point as the majority of complaints on bloat are from PvE players not PvP ones.
Because most of the bloat in PvP is self inflicted.
I’m also not opposed to PvP talents being looked at though.
I dislike bloat. I am not AMAZING at this game but I’m pretty good. I can sometimes pull bigger numbers than players with better gear on the same class.
But bloat isn’t the only issue here. It’s that abilities since Dragonflight’s skill trees have felt unfocused and, well, like bloat. So many classes have buttons that are just hit to maintain a buff or do the same thing as another ability but less damage but it does x thing and needs to be in the rotation. It’s chaos and not fun.
Destruction warlock circa Mists of Pandaria is my favorite example of many buttons but feels good. The class had a flow, the buttons made sense, it felt good to play.
Meanwhile these days if I pick up rogue or mage I get overwhelmed by buttons by level 30 and only half of those buttons are fun.
This and
This conflict very heavily.
The bloat issue isn’t a thing in pve. PvP wise it’s because of having duplicates.
I used to do mythic raiding. I don’t anymore because I am old and tired.
People who complain about button bloat have a point.
I’m glad the game has complexity. I think it makes the game vastly more interesting and creates the opportunity for skill expression.
Players are supposed to see someone better than them, doing something incredible, be it some crazy PvP burst sequence, insane damage/healing, or wild dungeon pulls and think:
“Wow, I wonder if I can learn to do that.”
If you water the game down from a complexity perspective, you limit the opportunities for this to occur.
That also doesn’t mean much. There’s a big difference between heroic guilds that pretend to mythic raid and ce guilds.
Not a valid one.
Mate if we are designing this game around only the cutting edge mythic raiders we’re toast.
most of hunters bloat isnt even in the rotation, its not specific to survival hunter over the others. survival hunter has what, 3 or 4 core rotational buttons depending on talents, and then 3-4 cooldowns depending on talents?
i mean thats not exactly retribution paladin but its also not what i would call overly bloated.
where hunter bloat comes from is just the dozens of niche utility and defensives, between shots like concussive shot, binding shot, and bursting shot, intimidate, all the traps like implosive/explosive trap, freezing trap, tar trap, you’ve got defensive utility like turtle, exhiliration, and SotF, you have threat management like feign and misdirect, mobility utility with cheetah, camoflauge and disengage, pet utility with revive and mend (and potentially summon and dismiss), further pet dependent group buffs like hero on ferocity, you’ve got your kick and then harpoon as a gap closer.
just an absolute bucketload of utility, a ton of which is highly situational and could probably be condensed a bit. i have 3 full bars plus a bit off to the side but most of that is not specific to survival, its just hunters bloated toolbox of random CC, threat, pet and defensive crap. and sure, each one of those is very useful in its specific circumstance for which it was designed, but at a certain point a toolbox that full becomes unwieldy
Good thing it’s not!
It’s designed around giving players agency on their play experience.
Too many buttons for you? Take fewer on-use talents, or don’t bind buttons you don’t think you’ll use.
Content too difficult? You can jump down in difficulties until you find the one that suites you.