That is why I said the ending of the War of 1812 is a better comparison than either World War 1 or World War 2.
Those World Wars had definitive victors, where the losers accepted the terms. The War of 1812 ended with a peace treaty that largely just ended the fighting, with no crippling terms, and then years later, Britain and the US formed a “special relationship.” That mirrors the Horde and Alliance armistice more so than WW 1 or WW 2.
I wanted reparations from the Alliance for sinking the Forsaken ships and killing Horde soldiers at Stormheim. For the Burning of Taurajo. For the Purge of Dalaran. Never got them. Not even an apology. While the Horde did give a formal apology in Shadows Rising.
I’m aware and I’m not trying to argue against what you’re saying. I guess all I am saying is that I am tired of the extreme faction pride from both sides and yes, I can and was just as bad at times with it.
I just fail to see what the big deal is with the horde paying reperations, especially towards the Kaldorei and why them having a more decentralized goverment and military is such a big deal.
They can keep the council to help settle territory disputes, while their powerful champions and the local forces defend their territories
The pandaren have a decentralized goverment with temple forces in each major territory and they managed for the last 10,000+ just fine.
Did they? They had a sha problem that required Alliance and Horde help. As well as the Mantid and the Return of the Thunder King. Even without Garrosh stirring the pot, they were on the verge of needing some help because of long lingering problems.
The Horde can not just disarm itself. As the saying goes, in a world with no nukes, the side with one nuke is king. The Alliance has a history of attacking whenever they see fit. The Horde needs to have its World Tree Burning Forces ready to defend against the Alliance as well as any other cosmic threat. The Horde can not just leave the defense of the cosmos to the Alliance.
That is arguably the whole lesson of all this: that despite their constant battling, the Horde and Alliance need each other to be strong, so they can both survive.
As far as reparations, it depends what form they take. I do not want the Horde starving while they ship carts laden with gold to Tyrande. However, I have often posted a out Thura Saurfang wielding the Axe of Cenarius, and becoming a sort of Warden of the Grove. Where she takes it upon herself, and some other Horde volunteers, to help rebuild Night Elf territory and redeem the Saurfang name.
It was there ready to blow. The mists were not going to protect them forever. The Horde and the Alliance did not bring the sha - the sha was already there.
Your point is that having no standing forces was OK for the Pandaren… until it was not? That sort of ignores that eventually, it was not enough. A problem the Horde can avoid.
The Pandaren shared this planet with the Horde and Alliance. They would have had to deal with the return of the Legion and Zovaal. They had no army, so they needed to involve themselves with the standing armies of the planet, or be swept aside. The Horde would be foolish to disarm itself.
My point is, each territory has a specific Temple force to defend said areas and it works well for them. The mantid were only a issue because the horde and alliance triggered the sha and it made the mantid swarm a 100 yrs earlier than they were supposed to.
The Legion destroyed one temple. But again, the monks handled the invasion just fine otherwise. Having a decentralized army capable of moving where it’s needed is a good thing
The horde nor the alliance need these massive standing armies. Why can’t both sides defend their territories with powerful champions and a decent standing force in said territory?
The Horde being purposefully weak just to make Alliance Players happy, or to make Horde Players with guilt issues feel… what ever it is they are looking for… does not sound fun to me, no. It also does not make any sense at all. And it is not effective in the long run. Even your example of the Pandaren is odd, because the whole point is that they needed to stop their current isolation and involve themselves in the world to save it. Their little regional defense forces needed the help of the Alliance and Horde.
With threats like the Iron Horde ready to come from some conjured AU to invade, Azeroth needs powerful standing armies. There are many threats out there, still.
What ever the reason, they needed the help, and their status quo was not working.
“The people they shared a planet with eventually effected them, that is why their little perfect isolation did not work!”
Ok… If Medivh did not bring the Horde to Azeroth, the Human Kingdoms would not have needed a force to counter them. If the Legion did not invade, the kaldorei could have done as they have done, instead of what they did.
Things work fine until they do not. No reason to set yourself up for failure and disarm your nations, just because things are fine at the moment. As if world ending threats do not assail the planet every few weeks.
The horde is consistently the aggressors in every major conflict dating back to the First War. The fact ANYONE on Azeroth lets them maintain a standing army is…it’s mind boggling.
But it’s a game, so yeah, obviously can’t cripple the faction for reasons that shouldn’t need to be spelled out, but the horde, at least their leaders need to be held accountable for the actions they allowed to happen under their rule.
Neither side needs to disarm. But they do need to work on a more peaceful solutions to their problems.
haha I was just gonna say, i’ve been listening to you say the same thing for what. FOUR years.
Sylvanas will pay the piper just you wait.
It would not have been a satisfying victory if Tyrande killed someone who was weak and repentive, but you and I both know Sylvanas can’t keep that act up forever. Tyrande’s “promise” not to let Sylvanas have any peace was a good threat. i can’t wait to see them fight again in the future at full strength.
The first thing I wanted was for Tyrande beat Sylvanas bloody for what she did.
Danuser was too much of a fanboy to let his goth elf queen sustain anymore than a scratch. So I had to give up on that.
The second thing I wanted was for the Horde leaders to answer for why they have supported an evil leader twice now. I don’t know if Blizzard is ready for that, we still don’t know why Sira and Delaryn joined the Horde. They said they would explain but they never did.
The third thing I wanted was a Night Elf and Gilnean brutal retaking of their own lands… this is to change their status of helpless victims. The Horde can’t just brutalize and commit atrocities then destroy the land they conquer and then peacefully walk out and leave the mess for the victims to clean up.
There has to be punitive justice… but I doubt I would get that either. The victims here at Blizzard HQ will always choose “Renewal” whether they like it or not.
Now I am settling for literally just the Horde characters explaining their actions and showing remorse and I am still getting push back from certain players. But that’s too much to ask for too I guess. We can’t have that.
It’s all discouraging, it evokes emotions of injustice, hubris and privilege where you have to be the bigger person and let it go. Over and over. I just thought the as a source of entertainment, I wouldn’t have to relive those emotions over and over. But we do, so I get triggered over it. Silly I know but if I had to self-diagnose myself that would be it.
The chapter on Sylvanas going bad is now over. We have lost the opportunity of a satisfying beat down of a villain.
Can’t agree there. For me, the SL stuff is just silly. It didn’t cause months-long shouting matches on the board. This very thread is showing the echoes of the nastiness that started more than four RL years ago. BfA hurt.
I hate this moral absolutism bs that they are pushing.
It’s like they have no idea how to write a good faction war story so they ended it before it really had a chance to become something. WoW seems like it wants to be a much darker fantasy but it’s being held back by it’s T rating.
They did have Tyrande decapitate Nathanos and fans were pretty vocal in wanting that it even made a fake leak in BFA. Although they did still manage to make Nathanos’s death a hollow victory for Tyrande, so yeah, i get the dissapointment.
It’s the same disappointment I have with Calia moving forward. If WoW doesn’t have a morally corupt faction to cause local conflict then what’s the point?
BFA warfronts got me really excited because they felt like throwbacks to the Night Elf vs Undead, and Human vs Orc campaigns of the RTS games. (and I never played the RtS games but I still got the hype.) If this story doesn’t lead back into something like that again in the future I will be deeply dissapointed. At the end of the day the bare bones of this franchise is a war simulator, it hasn’t felt like that in a long while.
Contrarian: a person who opposes or rejects popular opinion.
It seems to me this forum needs less groupthink. With the terrible behavior in this forum and group mob mentality here, being called contrarian is a compliment at this point.
