Burning of Teldrassil is Narrative Poison

That’s not going to happen any more than individual Alliance commanders will apologise for trying to sink Goblin ships at the start of Cataclysm.

And don’t get the idea from Dragonflight that it’s the end of Red Vs. Blue either.

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Sinking of the Goblin ship is not teldrassil, it was never framed like teldrassil and trying to compare the two is baffling. One is a narrative elephant in the room that ruined the story for two whole factions and multiple characters and heralded an era of ret cons on top of ret cons on top of ret cons until the blue naked man with impressive chest buds finally died to become a robit.

The other is a ship that blew up. We have blown up things on both sides on a bigger scale.

It definitely should be. Alliance as a faction is barely holding on with the two people that play on it. Red vs. Blue has been nothing but a disappointment that only serves to make the Horde into cartoonish villains and the alliance as their eternal victims in a low effort drama bait over the years with no one that actually win besides whoever is keeping score on how many things or characters got cut.

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That’s them constantly recontextualizing things by updating the story with stuff that wouldn’t have made sense with the old lore. But I can’t think of any event where Blizzard has said “this didn’t happen” and took it out of the game. I’m not saying that didn’t happen, what I’m saying is that they didn’t do that with these quests.

The writing of the Forsaken up to that point wasn’t inconsistent. Doing horrible experiments to people was the Forsaken modus operandi. Forsaken apothecaries all throughout Vanilla and TBC had to test all sorts of chemicals and mixtures on people. It’s entirely believable to me that they could adopt a hypocritical stance about what ‘free will’ means, especially when such things are done by Sylvanas, the cult of personality that much of Forsaken society was built around. If Sylvanas wanted to become the new Scourge, the majority of Forsaken would gladly follow her even if it contradicted stated goals of their society. Because first and foremost Forsaken society was Sylvanas.

To answer the question, usually you’d have some sort of character address it or have ruminations on what it means to make some choices over others. Usually with Blizzard it is just poor writing.

I’m speculating based on the obvious parallels that I drew out in my own post. The War of Thorns cast Sylvanas as Arthas and Delaryn as Sylvanas, with the night elves as high elves and the Horde as Scourge.

Maybe not. But those events happened. Blizzard has never come out and said, as the event with Garrosh, that those events were a mistake and not intended - and I suspect even that was a lie. What they’ve said is that Sylvanas was behind the Wrathgate and had evil plants even going back to Cataclysm.

What I’m getting at here is that Sylvanas has been a wildly inconsistent character not only because Afrasiabi is gone, but because they bent themselves into pretzels trying to save her. Because of that we run into ridiculousness such as ‘I will never serve’, and feeling remorse about anything she’s done when if you could describe Sylvanas as anything it would be ‘remorseless’.

Legion and BFA’s characterizations of her are consistent with Cataclysm. It’s SL that is inconsistent with the rest of her characterization up to that point.

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SL changed a lot of people. It seems to have broken Baine, gentled Greymane, and turned Anduin to someone who walked away from his responsibilities. So why is it hard to imagine that it changed the one time Banshee Queen as well? Especially since the two disparate parts of her soul seem to have finally reunited?

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The Horde did do it. “It was not us, it was the take your pick”: demon blood, demon blood redux, Garrosh, Sylvanas. It is never the Horde’s fault.

We have no evidence at all about how these people were and what happened to them. For all we know, they were manned with Sylvanas loyalists who left with her.

That’s how Blizzard chose to write it. And the problem was using the villain bat to begin with, not that they didn’t choose to finish the Horde off with it.

I mean, some here have called for Blizzard to treat the Alliance as the noble heroes defeating the evil, Legion like, Horde villains. But that was never possible. And because off that, the claims that Blizzard should write the Horde as evil will only produce yet more of the same.

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And than blizz will spend that expac or the next one by having certain NPCs, usually alliance, moralizing to horde players why we’re terrible baby killers, when nobody wanted said event to happen to begin with.

Also doesn’t help that some people want a darker alliance, just not the consequences attached to having a darker alliance

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Could I have a link, please?

Shadowlands gives me such a headache whenever it’s supposed to engage with the larger narrative.

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“Nothing escapes the Maw!”

Priest: rezzes

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Say it with me Ben

The only thing Blizzard is consistent at is being inconsistent.

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You do understand that resurrection spells are a game mechanic. Resurrection has never happened in lore, only raising to undeath.

It has happened in lore multiple times, though the exact mechanics behind how it works and how often it can be used are unclear. Famously, it happens during the Lich King fight. Also, the raising of undead works the same way when it comes to bringing back souls from the Maw, as far as I know.

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Presumably the souls have not reached the Maw yet. That anyone raised either using resurrection spells/by the Lich King was effectively in transit/was carried back by a Kyrian before they could be delivered to the Maw. I’d also posit that time nor working the way it does in the real world is simply the Jeremy Beremy effect(man Blizzard really should have watch more the Good Place/Lucifer for their Shadowlands expansion):

I kinda see it as more a magical defibrillator;

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I forgot how funny that movie was :smile:

Engineering has those.

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I’m pretty sure it’s been made explicit in multiple places, though not nearly as much a necromancy. Most notably Whitemane, off the top of my head.

They did seem to dodge talking about that in SL, which is weird when they made a major faction the spirit healer race.

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And when that happens, that means the old lore is replaced and forgotten. For all practical purposes, it’s retconned. That’s exactly what I mean by “soft retcon.”

That would be a hard retcon. I am not claiming Bilzzard did that.

And yet, that bit about the Wrathgate is also being walked back. Afrasiabi claimed it was true and the next thing we heard was “Well, maybe it’s true.” And they haven’t mentioned it since then.

If they meant to make it 100% canon, wouldn’t you think they would have directed Christie Golden to put it into the Sylvanas novel?

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