There is a Facial Scar actually in the game that is Literally named Teldrassil after the burning of the City Tree … cause thematically a great number of night elves were BURNED ALIVE when Sylvanas decided to burn out the kaldorai home city …
you dont have to be a RPer to want to remember events that happened In Game …
In all of In Game I have only seen TWO characters actually regret the things that they cononically did in old draenor … path of Skulls and all … Two!
and the leader of the Horde at the time called him a pussy for regretting those actions he did while under the effects of deamon blood …
yea … There has never been and will likely never be an Actual Redemption Arc for the Horde … most likely because some writers want to pretend it never happened …
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Whose alt are you?
No, they really can’t. Because they got the main “movers and shakers” out of the way and prolonging that storyline any further is, as the thread title says, narrative poison.
But just out of curiosity, if they were going to have that happen, what would you want to see in DF?
Not sure what you mean by prolonging, the poison is here, its in the body and lodged deep.
And its going to pop its ugly head in every time there is a horde character on the screen thats anything more positive than a moustache twirling villain.
Just think back to Saurfang lecturing us on Rastakhan’s death. How convincing was that little dialogue?
We have to detox the poison and I don’t think what has been datamined so far comes close to doing that.
What I am seeing in DF seems to be two parts problem of ignore the issue of what the Horde did by blaming the wrong person instead and retreading old problems where we kill off something of NEs for drama that we are already neck deep in.
What I want to see?
Malfurion not killed, this is the singular reason why I wont be buying DF until I see something that not only corrects it but improves things.
For players to quest with both Horde and Alliance characters and use this opportunity to see NPCs talk to each other and even the player. Where these characters actually state what they were part of. Their regrets… if they have any! I am sure there should be Horde NPCs that don’t give a damn and double down on the evil and Alliance characters that dont care for any reconciliation and want vengeance.
But basically use DF as an opportunity to air out the bad laundry. Make these characters start talking. Maybe they go from rivalry and hate to friendship and cooperation.
This is a good opportunity for new characters to be introduced.
If I were to push this further…
When Sylvanas comes back for her not to be greeted as a hero but an outcast. Maybe a leader of a neutral organization rather than Horde. And for Andiun to take a more back seat… there is a lot of councils being distributed but at its core this is an Alliance thing. That needs to come back while the new council factions need to revert back to their iconic singular rulers.
But thats my two cents and I have no hope for any of this materializing.
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Not sure what you mean. You had Sylvanas submit to her worst enemy in repentance. Sure Tyrande noted she was (literally) a new person and not crucify her. Which is her to Tyrande’s credit. It did more to make her a character I like than any torture or killing should could have done.
And in BfA, you had Thrall apologizing, for things he had no expectation of happening and did to, to Jaina, who has never acknowledged fault for the things she did do. (And for those of you who want to make this “yet another” The Alliance did nothing wrong thread, you can waster your own time.)
Heck with Garrosh, you saw him literally put on trial.
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Conveniently, Blizzard making the most person responsible somehow still innocent.
He never apologized for anything.
Which Blizzard (golden) said was not guilty and actually the person on trial was Tyrande.
Blizzard is very, very allergic to have the Horde take responsibility for their actions against the Alliance and Night Elves. This is one of the problems with the narrative that the OP has labelled as poison. Instead, most major characters on the Horde treat the events like some sort of accident or something they find “concerning” while the lower rank characters are still making statements like the world unjustly hates them so they have to stick together.
The sum of this is probably the most frustrating part… like dude your faction was literally burning kids alive, they don’t hate you because you have tusks or look green…
It reminds me of the conservatives saying things like “Why does so-and-so nation hate us? Because they don’t like Freedom thats why!”
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Yeah the bit in Silverpine never really tracked, seeing as it immediately contradicts Tirisfal. The newly risen aren’t exactly combat ready. Some adapt quicker than others but either way they’ll need some amount of time in the undead nursery to adjust.
Amusingly we see this discrepancy again in BFA. Where the Kul Tirans need a minute whereas the Kaldorei are pretty much ready to rock from the word go.
Now that could make sense as they presumably just saw the Maw. And in Shadow’s Rising Zenkan getting a glimpse of it causes a complete crisis of faith but Bwomsamdi, unlike Elune actually does save him. So finding out your Goddess abandoned you could be reason enough to declare war on essentially her Pope ASAP.
But then it’s weird the newly raised human undead make 0 mention of this. Which is particularly weird with Derek, as he was dead longer than most of the old characters we encounter in SL. Dead for much longer than Kael’Thas or Uther at any rate. So presumably he was fully processed and and was already pretty deep into his afterlife career. Only to get beamed up abruptly. But this never comes up.
Probably because the only explanation is he bonked his soul’s head on the way up and forgot about it.
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Idk if he apologized in BfA, but he did apologize on behalf of the Horde in Shadows Rising.
I am not trying to say it makes it better, just that he did bring a formal apology from the council when he met with Tyrande.
He definitely did not apologize in BFA.
The narrative is so damaged that this kind of thing has to be in the game itself… maybe in cinematics too.
I applaud the author taking it upon themselves to do this but this has to be systemic in the game. Right now the Horde looks like deranged psychos who assume no responsibility top to bottom.
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In the scene in BfA he said it was his fault. You can try and spin it, but that is totally apologizing. And yes, you are right that he apologized for Teldrisil, something that he and the Horde didn’t do.
Ironically, when I think of Blizzard having people apologize, I know of a number of Horde situations and if there was one for the Alliance, I don’t remember it.
Could you provide a link?
I love how Teldrassil isn’t Horde’s fault but all of Alliance’s actions in response to the Horde are 100% their fault. What kind of privilege is this? Horde privilege? Maybe thats why Teldrassil is narrative poison, neither the developers or certain players can admit it was the Horde’s fault committing the act.
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You have been too dishonest, hypocritical, and nasty to me in the past. I will not respond to any of your posts.
If someone else wants a link, let me know.
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Thanks, yeah thats probably for the best, I recall our last conversation. Trying to get biased people to see things objectively is like squeezing water from rock.
Not sure there is any logical conversation when you state things like:
I mean sure, it could have been an inside job, catapult fire can’t burn world tree beams after all.
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Teldrassil is pretty much one hundred percent Sylvannas because that’s how the Horde works. The WarChief takes complete responsibility for the Horde’s actions because the Horde is required to obey the WarChief without question or dissent. When Sylvannas separated herself from the Horde she took the responsibility for Teldrassil with her.
As Kirk would say. “I’m the Captain… that makes it my fault.” - Menagerie
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There has been multiple Horde rebellions so clearly they can and will stop following orders when they feel like it, and the Horde is not some single organism, they can think for themselves.
The Horde is fully and totally responsible for their own actions.
Lol no.
“I was ordered to do it” has never been an acceptable defense in any setting.
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Actually yes… that’s why not every single soldier who worked at Daachu or Auschwitz was executed at Nuremburg, only the officers who gave the orders.
So you went for the N.Germany… not me!
The German nation has assumed full responsibility for their grim history and apologized, they have never proclaimed their innocence. They have erected monuments, days of remembrance, museums, turned over officers, generals, leaders and persons of interest in addition to providing tremendous amounts of money for restitution.
It is a shame and legacy they will carry with them for generations that reminds us of mankind’s darkest hour.
All of the above? Blizzard has never had the Horde do. Instead you are here claiming Germany threw up its hands and said “Sorry not my fault! You see that funny mustache guy? He took all the responsibility with him!”
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When the Allies got done, Germany the country no longer existed to give an apology as its carcass and capital had been divided among the four allies. The Western nations combined their pieces to create a proxy agent against the Soviet Union which did the same with its piece.
The nation we know as Germany today is a recombobulation which has never been asked to make apologies to anyone. They did however impose laws on their own people that made many activities that American Neo Fascists indulge in, a crime.
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So the Horde… on the merit that exists still is doubly more responsible since the Alliance didn’t end their existence as state like the Allies did to the Third Reich. You brought N.Germany into this, honestly though if you are comparing the Horde to the Third Reich and trying to argue they are somehow not responsible for their atrocities is insane Drahliana. Like that was an automatic L to whatever you were trying to argue in favor of scapegoating Sylvanas and absolving the Horde.
Germany as a state has apologized many, many times. Multiple leaders, multiple associations with ties and history with the N.Party. This idea that Germany has never made efforts to reconcile is preposterous.
Until the Horde as a faction reconciles what happened in BFA the Horde and Alliance faction relationships will be pure poison thanks to the events of Teldrassil.
I will stop this here with you and say I agree to disagree with you but if Blizzard wants to go with your insane idea then they will need to do what I said earlier.
Have Horde characters explain themselves that they were honorbound to kill babies because the warchief ordered it and they can’t be held responsible. It will be an interesting thing to read through for sure.
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