Puke. I’m a melee monkey, I could never stoop that low.
Fair. I’m leveling a Night Elf Fire Mage.
I feel disgusted with this class.
WHY IS FLAME BLAST NOT ON GCD?
WHY DO THEY HAVE FREE CRIT FOR PASSIVE
Like… WHUT??? COMBUSTION IS GONNA GIVE ME Wha… I don’t… Gpy does 35% max health… THIS USED TO NOT BE ON CD… I just… don’t…
… and Triune… Let’s not forget about Triune… and Cauterize and their MASSIVE SPEED boost from it…
… I just…
-Locûtus.exe has stopped working.-
EDIT: Oh I’m sorry, I forgot about ICE BLOCK, POLYMORPH AND SHIMMER NOT SHARING SCHOOL OF MAGIC AND FROST NOVA.
God this class is stupid.
10 Likes
Combustion
Engulfs you in flames for 10 sec, increasing your spells’ critical strike chance by 100% and granting you Mastery equal to 50% your Critical Strike stat. Castable while casting other spells.
Beautiful ain’t it ? 4 secs of 100% crit on a rogue and if you think that is good u ain’t seen nothing yet.
100% crit + buffs your mastery and with heating up procs u get instant pyro that does > 15 k damage. When u reflect on 1.x k wet noodle obliterates I’m sure u won’t look back 
2 Likes
This…
This is just not okay.
How u think the fire mage killed nerdrage the warrior in awc in under 5 secs.
Flame breath also can 100% crit disorient and u drop a meteor on the poor warrior + pyro + flameblast and if it’s crits x2 guess what u flame on and another pyro.
Based on this logic … only way for frost dk to be on par is 100% crit during pillar of frost ^.*
Screw all of that.
I’m even more concerned that Fire Mages get a FREE CRIT.
I don’t think even Presences gave that much of an obscene amount of stats.
3 Likes
Actually, that’s prob close to what would catch FDK up. But instead you just lower CS by another 50%, give POF 2 more sec, but during POF with Obliteration talent just have all Oblits be KM procs. Then FDK would have an actual burst window to be feared, could still be disarmed, and CC’d and many other counter plays, but if you lined it up, you would score kills. Then for PVE you just buff BOS by 20% to compensate for DW, and reduce RW damage by half so FDK is an actual bursty class not a trickle damage of death by 1000 cuts.
Gcd of obliterate currently seems more than 1 second. It should be 1 second.
Bring back old empower rune weapon. All runes refresh 5 min CD. Used in the same pillar of frost window then u really got a kill opportunity with heavy burst. X6 obliterate possible that will force people to actually cc u if u are on say their priest in an RMP rather that lul noodle obliterate damage , kek.
Dk will then not be a walkover in pvp. Since Bolvar took over from Arthas he’s been making dks weaker and weaker. We should be able to kill it and pledge allegiance back to Arthas. 
1 Like
I love the idea about ERW, but it would screw over BOS players. I prefer not to play BOS so I would be ok with this, but I know some people would not like that. I would accept ERW as is if they just got rid of the need to spend half your burst window hitting with FS.
Pretty sure blackout kick is magic damage but i might be wrong.
Xuen is magic damage.
There’s also a conduit that increases fire damage done. So there’s definitely more to it that can spike up that damage even more.
The majority of forum goers is not the majority of DK’s. What people dont understand is balance, and its pretty clear. So lets say that they did increase the duration to 20 seconds, what does that spell out for PvE? Its not a pvp exclusive change in how its presented, so that means that the Pillar window now increases by another 8 seconds. That means there would be a nerf somewhere else because you are spending more time within that window and it being up 33% of the time means that there would need to be adjustments.
If people want to say that I dont play therefore what I say doesnt matter, well what about these people complaining that cant look at themselves for mistakes and would rather point to the tool they are using? They arent high ranked and there are gladiator frost dk’s.
Can you tell me if Frost is a good scaling or poor scaling spec? I can tell you right now, even with the penalties, mastery is going to scale very well. It takes 17.5 stats for 1% mastery, crit is almost double that. So even after you reach the point where the penalty kicks in, it goes up to 19.25 rating per 1% in mastery. No one is taking into account scaling of the spec. Just swapping some things around and lowering my crit by 2%, I was able to increase my mastery by about 12% and im seeing about 1000 damage more in my KM Obliterates.
So, changing something for pvp unless its strictly done just for pvp, will have pve consequences because they have a target number they are aiming for. You bring up the very bottom, and you nerf the top. Bringing everyone to the top is not a good way to balance the game.
It may be true that the majority of the forum goers may not be the majority of Dks. But at least you could speak for yourself in your first paragraph, second sentence. Because I don’t think you don’t know the balance either. None of us truly do other than Blizzard themselves to the point of apathy. The PoF example you provided is interesting to say the least to compensate something else. But have you seen what freaking Combustion does? I bet you would say to nerf that shiet.
Your second paragraph. I recall you argued with a 2400 Frost Dk from Area 52. Maybe it’s not 100% on the class. Maybe you’re implying that we should probably move on to a different class as we Dks are “fine” to put it in your standards. But your ego is large enough to argue with a 2400 FROST DK. If that’s not digging yourself in a hole, I don’t know what is. At least I flat out said that I am not motivated to climb, I don’t like relying on Chill Streak to do damage but it is the only thing to keep Frost Dk in the ladder rn. You’ve yet provided your actual PvP experience.
… as for your third paragraph… Frost is rising in play and “scaling” in your terms because the progression of the raid tier is over and people are more lenient now. Who knows it might be competitive to Unholy since now everyone is familiar with all the content Shadowlands provides. Whether or not Frost is a good scaling or poor scaling spec, the fact that there aren’t many representatives in both progression raiding and in upper echelon of PvP such as AWC (Mes is about to reroll), scaling means absolutely little.
Your fourth paragraph, first sentence makes no sense. I agree on your second sentence (Sorry, not paragraph). We’re not asking to be bonkers like FREE CRITS that Fire Mages have but we at least
at the very least
want to be competitive and be fun to play that doesn’t revolve around 1 ability in pvp.… and that ability got overall nerfed. Gollie gee. I guess you’re right Kelliste, Frost DKs are fine and I guess I am inclined to agree to disagree. 
1 Like
Buffing Oblit, or POF is off set by nerfing RW. More burst less trickle passive damage, or nerf Dots. Both are great tuning knobs. And Kel, in PVP people want windows of hard hitting burst damage, not continuous medium damage. For PVE trickle damage usually works better due to mechanics that force you to move, but PVP wants kills in the duration of a stun. Not “solid damage” the whole fight. Those numbers only look good on paper after a random BG. It’s why Arms is one of the tops atm in PVP, and mid pack in PVE.
4 Likes
You just have to look at how Blizzard balances to understand what they would do. I called it with KM rank 2, which is going over everyones head now for some reason even though they spent the entire first few months asking for the nerfs to be reverted even though the nerfs were due to the introduction of KM rank 2 and the ability being 60-70% of the specs overall damage.
And yes, I know what combustion does. Increase crit chance by 100% so you can pump out pyroblasts, as well as increasing your mastery by 50% of your overall crit and that applies a dot and the damage of the dot is a percentage of the damage done by certain abilities. The question is, what is killing you? The dot, or the abilities themselves?
And I was talking about what a meta is and if Frost is participating in the meta, or filling a role, then its meta. Get it right if you are going to use the argument. The chill streak nerf isnt actually that big. People see 10% and think its a total 10% loss, but its actually not. It is still going to do a lot of damage, and the rest of the kit is buffed up. So when all things are said and done, its an overall buff to Frost and people are still complaining about it.
Scaling is how well the spec scales with stats. Some scale better than others. Some classes mastery scale at a different rate than others. Mastery scales with frost really well. 17.5 rating per 1% up to 1050 when the penalty kicks in which is 60% from stats or 76% overall. After that it scales at 19.25 rating per 1% increase which would still be the best scaling stat for Frost dk. Unholy, on the other hand, scales at 19.4 rating for 1% mastery, which means Frost will scale better than Unholy. So as frost gets more and more stats those stats will be more effective. These specs that scale well with stats usually do worse at the start of the expansion when stat values arent high enough and this is the start of the expansion. Thats why you have to be careful with buffs and why its not always the answer. If you want to keep pointing to top tier players, top tier players understand that buffing isnt always the answer. Thats why I bring up D3 balance because all they do is continuously buff stuff to the point where they are at 20,000% increased damage on set bonuses. Quin, pointed to this in an interview and you just keep getting this buff up the lower performer constantly instead of nerfing the top performer, then its just gets out of hand. Its damage is good enough that it doesnt have to use a dps legendary. That should give you enough information that Fire Mage needs a nerf, the question is however, in what way. What is their damage profile like? Is it the dot that is able to get stacked up doing all the damage? Is it the abilities themselves? Has anyone actually looked?
You’re not the first to tell Kell this. Kell has been told multiple times about that with pvp.
3 Likes
Lol, true. I guess I though maybe this time they would understand.
I do know that some people love death by a thousand cuts type damage, I’m just not one of them. Actually that’s not entirely true, Aff lock and UH DK should each have 7-12 sources of damage that they could juggle and make work. Just not Frost DK.
Then why are people complaining about the damage outside of PoF and thus they have no pressure? Obliterates damage is locked away for the most part. I mean if I (this crappy player labeled by some of the people on these forums) can see that just by comparing damage of base Obliterates, Crit Obliterates, KM Obliterates and burst KM Obliterates then what does that say about other people. Its an absolutely huge cap from base Obliterates to KM Obliterates within a PoF window.
You have no pressure because of one bad change made in beta that brought about an Obliterate nerf because it was 60-70% of the specs damage. It should be clear to people that “actually play” the spec.
This is a separate issue. Yes, KM58 made Obliterate scale with Mastery. It scales really well with it. Abeit too well that everything else took a hit. It is what it is.
Both.
Assume Chill Streak does 3000 damage, buff that by 5% that yields 3150, nerf that by 10% that yields 2850 damage. It bounces up to 9 times. The damage went down from 27000 total frost damage to 25650 frost damage. A total of 1350 (5%) damage difference.
Everything else that costs a GCD got buffed by 5%. Chill Streak can last for X amount of GCDs if people do not know about social distancing as well as it can be continuous. It’s like a DoT basically that does not respect the GCD after the first.
It’s a net nerf. A small nerf, but it’s still a nerf. The Chill Streak nerf in PvP is not really worth the extra 300 Obliterate Damage per GCD.
A Frost DK nerf is the last thing we need right now. But at least it’s overall a buff in PvE. That is a given.
2 Likes
Some are different people complaining about different aspects of the same thing. Some people want more pressure out side of POF, so they can set up kills and force trinkets. Better for 3’s, They feel they have enough DPS during POF to get the job done. It’s a solid though.
Others want POF to be more scary so it forces trinkets every one minute, better for two’s.
But both want it to be bursts of damage that is timed to force cd’s and trinkets off their opponent.
No one ever says I need RW to last longer. Or I need my dots to be buffed by 25%. Those would be great for PVE, just terrible for PVP.
1 Like