To Heffner’s point - as OP as ret can be…playing 2s I win against almost every ret comp.
You put massive pressure on the ret and kite/shut down their wings, they’re completely useless.
Can they burst through AMZ with Dome?
I’ve done so a couple of times and it went either well or didn’t.
If they severely out gear you, yes.
Otherwise, no. Especially if you go dome of ancients. Even without the PvP talent you can chip away that burst of theirs to allow your healer to keep you alive.
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See, I really like Dome as a PvP talent. I feel like I can use it to shut down any magic bursts like Combust or Convoke.
Monks on the other hand…
It adds up to 80% magic damage redox in the zone, right? If I’m reading the tooltip correctly. 20% + 60% from the PvP Talent.
To my knowledge - yes.
They use to be my hard counter. For awhile a WW/healer comp was almost always an auto loss for me. With practice it’s about 50/50, now.
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Okay so ideally AMZ + Dome can be used to shut down a massive amount of incoming magic damage. Neat!
I’ve always been wondering what made Monks so strong. Has it always been that they’re numerically solid unlike us in SL PvP?
To my knowledge, I think every class has something to deal Magic Damage. Isn’t Karma one of them?
Correct
Insane damage, insane movement, constant up time
Going dome against monk for karma is useless as a better solution is for you to just stop attacking the monk.
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Ah, fair assessment.
This is assuming you’re dueling a monk. I know the class or the game is not balanced around 1v1s. But I am wondering if Karma is the only thing for monks to deal any sort of magic damage?
Using a dome is not an optimal play but wondering if it is still an option.
Well, in 2s it’s basically a 1v1 unless you’re going double dps. My wins comes down to putting as much cleave pressure as possible while looking at who will be my kill target. Sometimes it’s the monk, most of the time it’s the healer.
If the healer is my kill target, it’s a battle of whos healer is better because generally the monk will then ignore me and go after my healer. If they don’t ignore me, it’s GG I win.
Monks are mostly physical damage. If they go tigereye brew pvp talent it does make their physical damage nature for x amount of time. I’m not sure how meta that talent choice is, though.
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Tigereye Brew kinda reminds me of Shadow Blades. I looked up and Touch of Karma indeed does nature damage. If for whatever reason you already used your burst on a monk that already karma’d you, it is an option to burst the Monk just as hard as the Monk bursts you with Tigereye. AMZ can help but still unfavorable for the Dk.
I think that’s what makes your solution for not attacking the monk is sound.
I thank you for this conversation, Neth. It was really productive and confirmed my widened views of AMZ!
Frost still needs buffs though. 
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i am a HUGE dk fab since launch especially frost i cant agree more here other classes are so unbalanced it makes no sense yet we keep getting nerfs what is going on here with blizzard this is ridiculous
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and no matter what you say idiots who dont play dks have no clue about anything we do dk need a COMPLETE reworking and its really sad that SHADOW lands made dks so weak compared to other reworks
I will say, get some practice in 2s and if you can power yourself through 2s - find a good 3rd partner and jump into 3s. It’s a huge QoL change for us. Much easier on us as we can play out our class as support, as much as I hate saying that.
With that said, yes I am not satisfied with the current state of frost. Would really like an execute or mortal strike. Being a slow but powerhouse of a spec would be a lot more fun.
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I played 2s a couple of times with a Prot Paladin friend of mine and the fact that most of our bulk of damage is tied with Chill Streak along with Obliterate Spam, along with the lack of defensive utility we got compared to other classes kinda don’t motivate me to climb. My friend even wants me to roll Unholy and is unaware that Unholy has its own problems that is separate from Frost.
I suppose I can find a Warrior or a Monk for 3s. If I had one. Maybe tag a guildie in Stormrage that’s interested in PvP? Who knows? I am having a blast in RBGs though. Frost Dks in RBGs are a massive nuisance and deadly if played right.
If you’re having a really hard time in 2s with a prot and you’re doing your go’s correctly, the issue isn’t you. Prots are stupidly strong in arenas right now.
He wants you to go unholy for PvP? I hope he’s joking.
No he wasn’t joking. He doesn’t know anything about Unholy Dks and only knows that Unholy Dks are doing well in CN.
That does not necessarily reflect on their current state in PvP though. I can’t put my finger on what exactly is the problem with Unholy other than Mass CC can really shut down our damage.
I’m currently taking this PvP season as a grain of salt as a Dk. I only play this class because it is the class I’m loyal to most since LK.
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“This is fine”.
I tried to do this but I’m too thirsty for that glad mount. My alternative is to roll Ret.
That would be your best option. Either Ret or Fire Mages. 
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I went ret and am having a good time especially off healing. Did some mythic +9 where healer dropped and was able to off heal a tank to burn the last 5% of boss. Feels good man. My dps dropped like mad but I feel good. Can’t do that on a dk.
But that said from a pvp perspective fire mages are still op as hell and I may just lvl one for giggles.
If you can’t beat em join em xD. If all dks went fire mage / boomkin / Ret / warrior maybe they will fix dk back to WOTLK levels where we all had fun playing a non broken class.
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