Let me put it like this.
In pvp, the thing that separates frost (and unholy) from those such as Arms, rets, ww, fire, elemental hell even fury is that their CORE abilities alone hits consistently harder than frosts core abilities and their big damage dump abilities hits harder than that AND OBLITERATE. And when they use their cds everything their is increased. Frost core abilities does not have the same treatment and obliterate even when it crits inside and out of burst windows isn’t enough to compete, which is why people are constantly comparing it to others and why the issue with chill streak being the only reason to have a dk is a problem among lots of people. And when frosts only valuable asset for damage gets nerfed it brings this type of reaction from people. You have rets, ww, druids, elemental, and fire magi being able to global people in a stun and even without stuns. Arms is able to keep on the pressure consistently with just its core abilities while the covenant ability are just bonuses to seal the deal. Frost does not have that luxury. Even without the nerf, I doubt it would really change because the rest of our core abilities suck compared to everyone else’s.
That is what you’re not getting! Obliterate being unerfed would obviously help obliterate itself, but it doesn’t change what the rest of frosts core abilities lack compared to everyone by comparison.
3 Likes
Mastery scales well for the entire spec, it impacts the entire spec for the most part. KM rank 2 is part of the problem. Its what drove down the base damage of Obliterate which is the main rune spender, which means you dont have pressure outside of PoF windows.
Both? I mean technically you would be right because they both happen, but which one is doing more damage. That will tell you what the issue is.
Its not a net nerf, its a net buff. You are looking at one tiny window, and not what the buff can actually do overall. You dont think the 5% buff to everything else couldnt make up for the 1350 that you lost?
It would make up if the 5% buff respects the continuous damage Chill Streak provides that the rest of our abilities don’t because of the GCDs.
But I might be wrong on it.
… and it doesn’t matter if the DoT or the Direct Damage hits harder. Ignite is based on damage dealt. So… Yea… I’ll keep my Dome up for that.
I don’t know why but this post made me miss running Conflict and Strife to use Chillstreak on Mythic Hivemind and Ra-den.
4 Likes
So, the issue is the damage outside of PoF since 3’s is what pvp is balanced around. KM rank 2 lowered that damage, no one is building for pressure, but damage within the burst window, because the damage outside of PoF is low, at least in the department of the main rune spender. Its apparent to anyone that goes attacks a boar, and then attacks another boar with PoF and the Obliteration talent.
If you are trying to balance them of course it matters. If its ignite then that can be addressed through mastery / a nerf to the mastery portion of Combustion, if its the abilities then those can be addressed. Ignite stacks up, so doing as many pyros during that time can create a pretty big damage dot. It really does matter what is doing the damage.
So, both.
Gotcha.
Such a bonkers ability lol…
But might as well be, right? :^)
So you dont actually no yet you are saying it is. How about looking at the breakdown of the damage you took and seeing what is going on instead of just assuming its everything so NERF EVERYTHING NOW!
Not sure why you’re saying that. I was just jesting that it might as well be both.
Don’t jump into conclusions because of that. xD
1 Like
Please add the word instant pyro blast after 2 consecutive crits. It also does good damage outside combustion windows.
Hot streak
Getting two direct-damage critical strikes in a row with Fire spells will make your next Pyroblast or Flamestrike spell instant cast, and cause double the normal Ignite damage.
But your logic is that frost dks cannot have any pressure outside of pillar of frost.
And if obliterate rank 2 was the cause of multiple nerfs … combustion even with 100% crit and its op state gave even more buffs to a combustion windows does it not ?
As combustion can be further buffed with
Rune of power
Places a Rune of Power on the ground for 12 sec which increases your spell damage by 40% while you stand within 8 yds.
U can get this to appear instant when u combustion if you talent for it.
Quote
Rune of Power has been reworked to cast at your location when you use one of either Combustion, Arcane Power, or Icy Veins, depending on your spec.
- Developers’ notes: This change is aimed to help with the cast time and GCD utilization at the beginning of an encounter, while remaining viable in your opener as a high burst window.
Source : https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mage-rune-of-power/609425
Where in the heck is a talent to further buff KM obliterate damage in a POF window ?
5 Likes
I can argue that for pve frost dk needs a bigger burst damage thana fire mage since melee have less uptime than casters In a pve setting.
And also before you say rune is needed to allow fire mage to be competitive in pve to do 40% more damage why is that in pvp ? Pve and pvp balance issues brought in all dk equations but not apply to fire mage ?
Why does frost wyrm nerfed 66% in pve when mage pve talents are allowed in pvp ? Should fire mage combustion window only grant 33% crit in pvp settings ?
U can try to downrate my limited pve experience but hey at least I did some timed mythic +5-9 on my ret 
also facing same problems like dk with uptime but more forgiving as I can bubble some mechanics 
7 Likes
I begun leveling my mage that is shelved in Kel’Thuzad. She’s a Void Elf. I recall she jukes a lot.
Just as much as infuriating to go against when I dueled a monk with her. She was arcane at the time.
It’s time to set the world on fire.
OH and btw, Corridor Creeper works on the Maw intro… that helps to make things a bit faster.
… Oh and I also discovered that Flamecannon increases the range of your Fire Spells too. You can potentially outrange a freaking Marksmanship Hunter.
2 Likes
Each time your Fireball fails to critically strike a target, it gains a stacking 10% increased crit chance. Effect ends when Fireball critically strikes.
Oh great…
MORE FREE CRITS.
I just… omfg… WHY DOES THIS EXIST ON FIREBALL???
WHY CAN’T OBLITERATE OR FROST STRIKE HAVE THAT??? Jeeez duude…
5 Likes
Add it to what? I know what Hot Streak does, in fact I used it as an example all the time when showing the issues of having KM that gave a crit, be based off of crit. I think my exact words were something along the lines of “its like if Hot Streak gave pyro a guaranteed crit instead of it being instant”.
How about you actually go to twitter and tweet at the developers in how OP Fire Mage is instead. I even predicted that the buff would mean nothing and the complaints would still come.
Its exists to get hot streak. They also start out with 20% crit baseline, to help with hot streak early on. Fire for many many expansions was a late game spec where it didnt have enough stats to support hot streak. They have slowly over the expansions helped it out.
Now, Frost has this big emphasis on KM Obliterates that are triggered by crits with nothing to really help it out other than Obliteration. You either get crit so more autos can crit which means more chances to proc KM, or you dont and then you fall on your face outside of Obliteration windows.
The amount of FREE CRITS that fire is getting is literally eating my mind right now. xD
This is a good meme.
1 Like
Then go to twitter and tweet to the wow devs.
But I don’t have twitter though… I mean I guess I can make one.
Someday though, but not today.