BROKEN - Paladins now have windfury due to critical bug

[Gàldin-yojamba]

This si jsut how the game works guys its not broken lol go cry more plus Reckoning only stacks 4times with your basic its 5 swings he got that wrong

See my links to pics above - its broken.

[Harmondale-whitemane]

Procs are admittedly indeed supposed to be able to proc off each other (except for a shaman’s extra attacks through windfury are not supposed to proc off itself).

But that’s not the issue. The issue is hand of justice giving two extra attacks instead of one. And I imagine this macro can be used to abuse other mechanics, like having windfury give you 3 extra attacks instead of 2, sword spec give you two extra attacks instead of 1, etc.

[Gàldin-yojamba]

I bet this rogue got stomped by a pally with reckoning

This pally in the vid is on my server. He stomped myself and 3 guildies in ungoro last night before he needed to bubble. I have 4.4k unbuffed hp in my plate pvp gearset - i died to the initial stacked rek bomb before my guildy warrior could charge him.

Understand that - 4.4k damage on a warrior in full plate gear (almost 5k armor) - in under 2 seconds then he proceeded to kill 3 more before he had to bubble.

[Harmondale-whitemane]

Not only that, but it appears that there are TWO bugs at play here.

• The Hand of justice / extra swing proc bug where you can use a macro to get even more extra swings, and

• The reckoning stacking bug where you can quickly sit then stand as you are being attacked in order to be critically striked AND get a reckoning stack - which, according to a blue post, sit/crit is not supposed to proc things like reckoning.

These two bugs alone are game breaking. When used together, they are doubly so.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

It wasn’t removed at any point in Vanilla. They removed it in 2.1 when they fixed the shaman “windfury on both hands” bug, I believe.

Most things, at one point or another, lost the ability to reproc themselves (and Windfury never could, despite rumors to the contrary), but for all of Vanilla they could proc each other.

I do not remember it that way.

Turns out Swifty does not remember it that way either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpmSZr8nXuE

Skip to 1:27 he also remembers that sword spec got nerfed to prevent it from proc’n off proc’s.

Trust me man, it was a very big deal at that time… It was as a big a deal for warriors as when WF got nerfed for shaman in mid vanilla.

[Drbubbles-frostmane]

Unless they changed something there are some video’s out there recently testing the sit crit thing and it not working I thought.

[Aryxymaraki-earthen-ring (Aryxymaraki)]

It wasn’t removed at any point in Vanilla. They removed it in 2.1 when they fixed the shaman “windfury on both hands” bug, I believe.

Most things, at one point or another, lost the ability to reproc themselves (and Windfury never could, despite rumors to the contrary), but for all of Vanilla they could proc each other.

I do not remember it that way.

Turns out Swifty does not remember it that way either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpmSZr8nXuE

Skip to 1:27 he also remembers that sword spec got nerfed to prevent it from proc’n off proc’s.

Trust me man, it was a very big deal at that time… It was as a big a deal for warriors as when WF got nerfed for shaman in mid vanilla.

I don’t have time to watch it right now but I suspect that reference is being made to removing the ability for it to proc off itself.

Sword Spec was able to proc off Windfury Totem right through the end of Vanilla. Maybe there were other procs it was removed from, I’m not quite so sure about that.

[Gàldin-yojamba]

These two bugs alone are game breaking. When used together, they are doubly so.

I tried to raise an issue on the bug report forums about this when a streamer (no names because i dont want to get this one deleted for targeting anyone) was testing this rek mechanic in strath ud. You can also get rek stacks by placing blessing of sacrifice on a tank and have the tank sit/stand for free crits. My thread was deleted and the comments were that thisd behavious didnt really buff a paladins damage that much.

[Smeet-sulfuras]

Not only that, but it appears that there are TWO bugs at play here.

• The Hans of justice / extra swing proc bug where you can use a macro to get even more extra swings, and
• The reckoning stacking bug where you can quickly sit then stand as you are being attacked in order to be critically striked AND get a reckoning stack - which, according to a blue post, sit/crit is not supposed to proc things like reckoning.

Yes, the sit/stand action is a workaround to the fix blizz made to sit crits not triggering reckoning. The quick stand causes the game to think that you were not sitting when the crit landed. The only way blizz could fix this is to prevent reck charges for a short time after sitting, not just while sitting. It’s clearly unintended, but blizz hasn’t done anything about it.

The HoJ bug seems to be looking like the macro is causing the game to benefit from the proc’s swing reset and ALSO banking the extra swing. If you have an extra attack charge ready before a fight starts, you get the initial hit, then the extra attack. This macro seems to make every hit count as the “initial” hit while incorrectly already benefitting from the swing reset.

So it is likely doing something like this:
Swing connects
Extra attack triggers, resetting swing timer and creating an extra attack charge.
/stop attack
Extra attack gets queued instead of used
/start attack
You hit normally with the reset swing
You use the extra attack charge.

The /stopattack landing between the swing that triggers an extra attack and the use of that attack is probably what is going on.

Usually the swing reset and the immediate attack are the proc from HoJ.

The stop attack seems to make them separate events, causing them to give 1 too many hits when interrupted.

/educated guess

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

I was specifically talking about Sword spec proc’s off Sword spec. (nothing to do with WFT)

You could always proc extra swings off extra swings. Works with sword spec etc.

I responded

That actually got nerfed in 1.11 or 1.10, cant remember but it’s not in Classic; well at least it’s not suppose to be.

Talking specifically about Sword spec proc’s off Sword spec.

[Aryxymaraki-earthen-ring (Aryxymaraki)]

I was specifically talking about Sword spec proc’s off Sword spec. (nothing to do with WFT)

You could always proc extra swings off extra swings. Works with sword spec etc.

I responded

That actually got nerfed in 1.11 or 1.10, cant remember but it’s not in Classic; well at least it’s not suppose to be.

Talking specifically about Sword spec proc’s off Sword spec

Sorry, talking past each other then!

I was talking about the ability of different procs to proc each other. I agree that at some point in Vanilla, most (if not all) procs lost the ability to proc off themselves.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

All good, typical case of miscommunication; happens often round here… =)

[Gàldin-yojamba]

Yes, the sit/stand action is a workaround to the fix blizz made to sit crits not triggering reckoning

Exploiting a bug that exists from spell batching. I fixed it for you.

The rest of your post is pretty spot on, but its not just affecting hoj procs. Its affecting any extra attacks.

[Harmondale-whitemane]

You can get around it by abusing spell batching.

You sit, stand, sit, stand spam. You get crit, and the normal crit affect limitation blizzard put in place is circumvented because the game “thinks” you are standing when you are crit when you, because of the batching system. The system doesn’t register you as “sitting” because of the delay in the batch, so when you are critically hit, the game thinks you are standing and thus gives you on-crit procs.

[Drbubbles-frostmane]

Sword Spec was changed in 2.1 and 3.0 . In 2.1 it was made a yellow attack for a DPS Increase. In 3.0 they made it so it cannot proc more than once every 6 seconds.

[Gàldin-yojamba]

I agree that at some point in Vanilla, most (if not all) procs lost the ability to proc off themselves

Not all proc. Only wf / wf totem / talented swords specs because it sets off an internal cooldown. Anything that its a weapon/item proc (hoj/thrash/flurry) has no internal cooldown and can proc off itself because the game does not distinguish between extra attack and melee swing

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

IMO if they want “Athentic Batching” they should use the modern wow super fast batching and then package time stamp sections of batches into blocks regarding CC’s like Sheep, Sap, Repentance, and that sort of thing so that specific functions can “Vanilla batch” yet allowing the game to also run correctly at the same time.

This would flat END the BS that’s this “Classic wow 2019” system that just does not work like vanilla actually played in actual vanilla.

[Harmondale-whitemane]

That’s too expensive bro. They would rather just artificially cripple the speed at which their servers process client requests.

[Gàldin-yojamba]

So it is likely doing something like this:
Swing connects
Extra attack triggers, resetting swing timer and creating an extra attack charge.
/stop attack
Extra attack gets queued instead of used
/start attack
You hit normally with the reset swing
You use the extra attack charge.

Actually from the behavious i have seen and am testing myself in game is:

So it is likely doing something like this:
Swing connects
Extra attack triggers, reducing your next swing timer to zero and creating an extra attack charge.
/stop attack
Extra attack gets queued instead of used
/start attack
You hit normally with the swing timer at zero
You use the extra attack charge.

[Smeet-sulfuras]

So it is likely doing something like this:
Swing connects
Extra attack triggers, reducing your next swing timer to zero and creating an extra attack charge.
/stop attack
Extra attack gets queued instead of used
/start attack
You hit normally with the swing timer at zero
You use the extra attack charge.

That’s exactly what I meant by “resetting swing timer,” just spelled out slightly more explicitly.

The stop attack seems to split the swing reset and the extra attack, allowing for them both to generate an extra attack instead of only the extra attack charge doing so.

Definitely a bug, no idea how blizz will fix it, or if they will.