At the direction of the GM’s, I’m here again in the forums to bring attention to this matter.
TLDR: Bring Nightfall Back
Links to other posts regarding this topic that go more in depth below:
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I think it makes perfect sense that it was removed.
I don’t like that axesmiths lost 2 exclusive weapons and got nothing in return.
Should add another 1H axe + another 2H axe for axesmiths, without the unique procs. It’s actually a bit late now for those now that raid gear is dropping, but for future seasons.
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I can live with the removal a whole lot better if we got something different that was as significant in return.
Until then though, the straight removal is a bad move on its own imo.
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Wait, why do people want them? You forced your worst performing players to even further ruin their performance and never be considered for a weapon
When did this U-Turn into people wanting it? Our guild would have killed for someone smooth brained enough to want to be the Anni/Nightfall bot
Also they ended up sucking anyway. PServers had their proc rates drastically wrong. And we were happy they ended up sucking so nobody would be subjected to permanently using them
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This whole “remove items to protect players from having to use them” crap is anti-mmo and cringe. Let people sacrifice their personal performance in favor of actually clearing content if they want to.
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#BringBackNightfall
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that’s what’s so shameful about it. like, they really thought axe smithing would be fine without these two items? no, they’re just being lazy
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Hey! Appreciate your response, anything that keeps the thread going and visible is awesome so thank you. Here’s my two cents on what you said…
1:
Having a player willing to sacrifice personal output for the betterment of the raid/party is at the core of almost every aspect of WoW and also what makes WoW great. Everybody does this in someway whether they realize it or not. It begins as soon as you pick a faction, and continues on through your class, spec, talents, professions, and so on. It’s what makes your character unique and desirable to other group compositions such as your guild or raid and ultimately creates a synergized community where all needs are met through teamwork and communication.
You could apply your question of, “Why do people want them?” to any aspect of WoW and you could answer it by saying, “because that’s the role they want to fill/play”.
It’s the RPG part of MMORPG.
2:
The fact that an item “sucks” or is underpowered has been something that has fairly consistently been addressed throughout SoD for many items through buffs and could easily be applied to Nightfall to make it better or just entirely different, yet still beneficial for a player to invest in obtaining.
3:
Removing any part of a class, specialization, or profession’s endgame without announcing it when it requires a significant investment before that player finds out it’s no longer in the game is terrible no matter what was removed. Not providing a replacement is just doubling down on their poor decision.
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Having a player willing to sacrifice personal output for the betterment of the raid/party is at the core of almost every aspect of WoW and also what makes WoW great.
Yes, I agree, but there’s good versions of this and bad versions. Nightfall and Annihilator, while not actually meta in Classic, were expected to be. This meant select people in your raid were giving up parsing, weapon upgrades, and in most guilds, all upgrades as they were then the lowest performance gain for any distributed item (Also now your worst performer due to using the crap weapon, so anyone at a glance will not give that player an upgrade).
In reality, the proc rates were abysmal. The DPS loss of forcing someone to never unequip it and never get an upgrade was larger than the DPS gain of 5 second caster windows that were up 10% of the boss. And if it were better, then the Meta would become forcing players that want to see item progression and perform well (Which is almost every raider) to find a guildie to be subjected to it. “Then just don’t do it” isn’t something sweaty Classic players consider, they will do anything they need to.
So you want a new item because Nightfall/Annihilator suck, cool they’re all over SoD
You are playing “Season of Discovery”. This isn’t Era. If you are investing into unconfirmed patches that is you misunderstanding what SoD is.
I do agree that they should have added a replacement on that vendor for literally anything else, that’s really the only part here that makes sense
The problem is that with it in the game, now you de facto have to have a person using nightfall in your raid forever, and they don’t get to update their weapon until TBC
that’s fair. honestly, changing such an item is a change that falls well within the bounds of classic+ but without replacing it with a comparable item, that’s simply lazy and unforgivable. like, axe smithing blows now. that’s not good. this is the quality of work you can expect from SoD devs for your sub money.
I think sometimes people like taking on these roles that you may not find enjoyable. Adhering to a parse meta is why they removed it which just takes away an element of the game.
Also, they could have done an upgrade kind of thing throughout the phases or add new items with similar functionality, etc. The throw it away approach is kinda lame.
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I agree, they should have just changed the proc
Also, the “adhering to a parse meta” doesn’t really make sense here, since casters who care about their parses would be the ones demanding there be a nightfall-wielding melee in the raid.
Just from personal experiences, on private servers and in classic, who was using nightfall was always a point of contention amongst the warriors, and once you get past t2, it’s hard to convince someone to nerf their DPS every week just to sometimes buff the casters. Its kind of silly to basically tell someone “you aren’t allowed to parse”
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Anyone that wants nightfall should be forced to be the nightfall bot
A lot of people didn’t mind using a super powerful epic axe…
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So you’re going to be the bot?
Are you offering me a position in your guild?
This is exactly what adhering to a parse meta means… casters interested in parsing would demand it and melee who don’t want anything to affect their parse would hold it as a point of contention.
But the other points also still remain that (a) some people enjoy this type of game play and (b) they could have updated the item in many creative ways.
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I think we would agree that Nightfall and Annihilator are very niche weapons and were not meant to be used as a universal solution for all encounters and scenarios. I think we’d also both agree that Nightfall specifically has a very unique, desirable mechanic at its core that ultimately wasn’t tuned correctly to live up to its full potential and thus falling off in viability for raids. You said it yourself (others as well) that your raid would have killed for a Nightfall/Annihilator bot until it was found that they weren’t actually as good in practice as they were on paper and your guild happily left it behind.
I believe this weapon is meant to be used on longer, single target boss fights that’ll maximize the extra damage % proc the most, not trash mobs packs. Anyone with Nightfall could use something else when the proc isn’t deemed necessary.
Parsing goals and loot distribution are player sourced decisions. No one is forcing players to parse except those who choose to, and no one is forcing loot away from a Nightfall user except for the players that are choosing to. If Nightfall was tuned more appropriately to increase the wielders positive direct impact on the raid’s performance to be more in line with everyone else, then I think the idea of a player being “subjected” to wielding the weapon would go away.
I think it’s fair of saying this is SoD and not Era, therefore investments in anything unconfirmed is a risk. But I do believe the devs were very specific in saying and implementing improvements and additions to most if not all professions throughout the different phases in SoD, even specifically mentioning improvements for those who invest in Thorium Brotherhood, Argent Dawn, etc. I’m not an expert in all the professions but I can’t think of any other item that was removed along these lines. If there are any other items that were taken out, that’d honestly be interesting to know! What I’m saying is that there was a least a fairly consistent message and proven track record until this point that SoD was more in the spirit of adding to the professions in the game rather than subtracting from them.
Using Nightfall or not using it is a player choice. A guild requiring someone to use Nightfall is a very specific player sourced choice. Guild leadership not giving that person freedom is a player sourced choice.
Nightfall’s mechanic is obviously desirable, but not properly tuned to provide a desirable experience at the weapon’s cost. There have been 100’s, if not 1000’s of items created/tweaked for SoD. Not tweaking this item and removing it? Ok, I kind of don’t like that, especially after conveying a message that endgame reputations that provide plans, enchantments, etc were going to be getting some extras in P4. But removing this item without a replacement is an even bigger problem.
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yeah it’s not even clear that nightfall is worth using on boss fights with adds, multiple targets, etc.